Afigeinnai
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2020 5:44 am

Re: not charging my iON, cell or CMU or BMU problems

Thu Oct 22, 2020 12:37 am

Last update.

The system was standing during the night with defected PCB, but with the plastic shovel in corner.
There are no failure in the morning with ignition on. It indicates more than half battery,no warning lights.
Only failure on OBD as before U1113 MiEV can T/o/ not equip
As I posted before, i wont turn key to ready position, because its missing some wiring to the rest of the car..

Nearly bought all CMU boards from advertisement. They coming in Post tomorrow or on Monday.
If someone will need CMU boards in future, just let me know on PM

Some pictures attached :

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kiev
Posts: 1350
Joined: Sun May 03, 2015 7:15 am
Location: The Heart o' Dixie
Contact: Website

Re: not charging my iON, cell or CMU or BMU problems

Thu Oct 22, 2020 6:08 am

That is a strange acting CMU. The pressure "fix" by pressing on the board makes me think that there is a "cold" solder joint that is acting intermittent, or a cracked ceramic capacitor. There is a conformal coating on the board that may be acting to hold a loose part against the solder pad

Ideas for repairs:
If you have the soldering tools and skills to touch up all the solder joints in the vicinity of the "pressing";

Use a tweezer measuring tool to check ceramic capacitors and resistor values.

Replace/swap the LTC chip with a known good chip.

Take it to a cell phone repair shop to do the soldering if you don't have the equipment, etc.

PS. Your display seems to show 8 cell temperatures, but there are only 6 sensors read by the microcontroller, what's up with that? The 8 cell voltages are read by the LTC chip.
kiev = kenny's innovative electric vehicle

Afigeinnai
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2020 5:44 am

Re: not charging my iON, cell or CMU or BMU problems

Thu Oct 22, 2020 8:19 am

Kiev, thanks for your reply.
No, i do not have tweezer measuring tool or hot air soldering equipment. But i will definitely buy everything. I do have soldering skills. I managed to swap address and after unexpected failure, I change it back to original CMU. It was like exam in university for me: a lot of worry and sweat .

As i posted before I purchased all CMU boards from iMiev. I found a guy which is tearing battery apart.

My idea is to find the right address CMU and just to plug. I hope it will work.

I will check all of CMU and will mark them with addresses for the future.
As well I will buy C LEXIA 3 to make complete diagnosis on the car and battery.
Will keep updated.

Afigeinnai
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2020 5:44 am

Re: not charging my iON, cell or CMU or BMU problems

Fri Oct 23, 2020 2:50 pm

So.. The job is done.
I received all CMU boards and from third attempt i found Nr7.
Replaced battery, and Peugeot starts to charge.
I been monitoring all charging process until the end on App caniOn150. Its look like that One batt cell in row 7 ( nr 52) is 0.010 mv lover then rest cells. Can it be reason why CMU was dead ( might be BMU tries to equalize it all the time and that's how CMU dies?) Do I need t worry abou it ?

How to find out what is rest SOH of whole battery pack ?

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kiev
Posts: 1350
Joined: Sun May 03, 2015 7:15 am
Location: The Heart o' Dixie
Contact: Website

Re: not charging my iON, cell or CMU or BMU problems

Fri Oct 23, 2020 3:01 pm

Afigeinnai wrote:...
Its look like that One batt cell in row 7 ( nr 52) is 0.010 mv lover then rest cells. Can it be reason why CMU was dead ( might be BMU tries to equalize it all the time and that's how CMU dies?) Do I need t worry abou it ?

How to find out what is rest SOH of whole battery pack ?


Great work, it looks like you have a really good pack, not to worry about 10mV, that would not damage the CMU.

the pack has 35A-hr capacity according to your screens and all cells within 5 mV from this Canion screen. The Laef uses SOH but not the Mits.
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kiev = kenny's innovative electric vehicle

Afigeinnai
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2020 5:44 am

Re: not charging my iON, cell or CMU or BMU problems

Sat Oct 24, 2020 8:28 pm

kiev wrote:
Great work, it looks like you have a really good pack, not to worry about 10mV, that would not damage the CMU.

the pack has 35A-hr capacity according to your screens and all cells within 5 mV from this Canion screen. The Laef uses SOH but not the Mits.


So 35A-hr from 50A-hr its only 70%. I do not think that its very good result.

DBMandrake
Posts: 297
Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2017 4:57 am
Location: Scotland

Re: not charging my iON, cell or CMU or BMU problems

Sun Oct 25, 2020 2:51 am

Afigeinnai wrote:
kiev wrote:
Great work, it looks like you have a really good pack, not to worry about 10mV, that would not damage the CMU.

the pack has 35A-hr capacity according to your screens and all cells within 5 mV from this Canion screen. The Laef uses SOH but not the Mits.


So 35A-hr from 50A-hr its only 70%. I do not think that its very good result.

While the cells might be 50Ah that is a full discharge from 4.2 volts to 3.0 volts.

The car only operates the cells between 4.1 volts and 3.6 volts, so the usable capacity when new is 45.8 Ah. 35Ah is therefore 76% SoH.

As to whether this is good or not, I don't think you've said the age or mileage of the battery pack ?

My Ion was at 39.9Ah at 6 1/2 years old and 28k miles but was down to 32Ah at 9 years and 55k miles. I replaced 4 cells which were well below the rest which increased it to 34Ah however it dropped to 32 Ah again over the next 5k miles, so was at about 32 Ah again when I sold it at 62k miles.

The cells on these cars just don't last very well I'm afraid. I think the reason is that the very small capacity means the cells are cycled a lot for a modest mileage (60k miles is nearly 1000 cycles) and the short range means it is common to have to deeply discharge the battery for "normal" driving which is very damaging for the cells.

If you want an EV that will do a higher mileage without as much degradation you need a much larger battery capacity so that the cycling is less and the discharges for normal driving distances are not as deep.

Edit: I see your screenshot shows 96,000 km or about 60k miles. So if you have 35Ah left at 60k miles you are doing a lot better than my car did...as even after some cell swaps it was 32Ah at 60k miles.
- Simon

EV: 2011 Peugeot Ion
ICE: 1997 Citroen Xantia V6

Afigeinnai
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2020 5:44 am

Re: not charging my iON, cell or CMU or BMU problems

Sun Oct 25, 2020 8:50 pm

Thank you for very comprehensive reply.





Now i wonder to buy lexia3 diagnostic to do maintenance charging on traction battery. As far as i know maintenance charging should be done once per year.
I have some plans to maintain the car :
1.Change oi in gear box. ( i believe it`s standard oil ATF SP III ?)
2. Change the coolant from blue one to red\pink( originally it came with the blue)
3. Isolate PTC heater and houses. ( now its already cold in Norway)
4. To do some anti rust protection spray ... Its already rusted on chassis.
...........
5. To open cover for AC to check for moisture . I read that its a common problem that moisture gets in to Air condition unit, and when you found it , it`s too late. Will it help if I open it up and will seal with new silicone?

Pepin
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2020 2:26 am

Re: not charging my iON, cell or CMU or BMU problems

Wed Oct 28, 2020 3:29 am

Hi, everybody. My Ion 2011 with 133.000 km. and 25Ah. has a problem with the cell 69. Like, high resistence. It´s very fast discarging and marks 2.6 v in max acceleration. With half charge i can see the turtle without great acceleration and 0.750mv difference between cells. When I charge always the 69 can´t be totally charged. And needs a lot of time trying and discarging other cells. The battery can´t be balanced correctly. Always with 16 bars.
In summer the problem is minor. (CMU reading better?) .

The problem is cell 69 o CMU 10. I think, generally in forums the problems are with 10 CMU or cells in this module. Curiosly always the same.

Well, I think to change the LTC in CMU 10 and the cell. Maybe the cell is ok. but I prefer the safe way.

The analog LTC 6802g-2 (2008) it was replaced (2011) (upgrade) for LTC6803g-2 .

https://www.analog.com/media/en/technic ... 0324fa.pdf

" It is pin compatible with the LTC6802-2, providing a drop-in upgrade."

LTC6802-2 Multicell Battery Stack Monitor with an Individually
Addressable Serial Interface
Functionally Equivalent to LTC6803-2/LTC6803-4. Pin Compatible with the
LTC6803-2

https://www.analog.com/en/products/ltc6 ... t-overview
https://www.analog.com/en/products/ltc6803-2.html#

Analog recommends to use LTC6803-02. Maybe a long term, knows problems with LTC6802-02.

How you see to use the LTC6803-02. It's a big risk?.


I replaced the charger. Thank a you a this forum and I try to fix the battery.
Last edited by Pepin on Wed Oct 28, 2020 4:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

DBMandrake
Posts: 297
Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2017 4:57 am
Location: Scotland

Re: not charging my iON, cell or CMU or BMU problems

Wed Oct 28, 2020 3:39 am

Pepin,

From what you describe you have a faulty cell, not a faulty LTC chip.

If the voltage drops by much more than other cells when accelerating vs coasting the cell has high resistance.

Another way to confirm high resistance is to monitor the cell voltages while DC rapid charging the car from below 40% SoC - a cell with high resistance will go from being lower voltage than all other cells before you start charging, to within about a minute being higher voltage than all other cells - if you see this behaviour it's a clear sign of high cell resistance as the faulty cell cant take a high charge rate without going over voltage. This is how I diagnosed high resistance cells on my car.

So - lower voltage than other cells under acceleration and higher voltage than other cells during rapid charging is how to diagnose high cell resistance for certain.

I replaced 4 cells on my Ion last year, three of them not only had low capacity, but also exhibited signs of high internal resistance. This caused rapid charging speeds to be much slower and throttle much sooner because the faulty cells reached the maximum 4.105 volts long before other cells.


When I replaced the faulty cells rapid charging speeds returned to normal. Probably a coincidence but one of my faulty cells was 69....

You will be seeing the turtle at half charge when you accelerate because any individual cell going below 3.0 volts under load will immediately bring the turtle mode on until the voltage goes above 3 volts again. So it will go off again when you lift the accelerator and the voltage goes up again.
- Simon

EV: 2011 Peugeot Ion
ICE: 1997 Citroen Xantia V6

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