coulomb
Posts: 190
Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2018 8:32 pm
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: Blown Diode in the Waffle Plate

Sat Aug 31, 2019 6:27 pm

kiev wrote: Now to consider how this plays for OBC failure--

And also how to repair an IGBT in the Waffle Plate™. Layout (for minimizing inductance and maximizing heat sinking) is probably too important to have something external grafted on. Plus, the IGBT probably failed shorted, and so needs to be removed from the circuit. Even if a drain or source lead fused open circuit, you'd probably want to remove the dead IGBT so it didn't add to gate-source capacitance.

I have a Nissan Laef now, but it turns out that they also have a Nichicon charrger, a bit different in detail (e.g. one large can capacitor in place of 3 PFC PCB capacitors), but similar in broad terms, I believe. Evidence is starting to trickle in of Leaf OBC failures, though I suspect they are nowhere near as prevalent as iMiEV OBC failures.

[ Took a laef from Kiev's book ;) to defeat the stupid auto-links. ]
Last edited by coulomb on Sun Sep 01, 2019 8:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

kiev
Posts: 1123
Joined: Sun May 03, 2015 7:15 am
Location: The Heart o' Dixie
Contact: Website

Re: Troubleshooting and repair for On-board Charger (OBC), DC-DC Converter

Sun Sep 01, 2019 6:58 am

i've tried digging thru the epoxy on a waffle plate and it is very difficult--likely an impossible repair. Easier to replace the entire plate and even that is not easy. i imagine they mount the plate to the heat sink, then mount the bottom board, then do the soldering in place.

Coincidentally i've obtained a Laef also. Now i'm looking at how to identify and replace a bad cell(s)--the full charge range is showing 19 miles. But it's a fully loaded car with only 45k miles, always garage kept, new tires and in otherwise perfect condition.

i hope the laef nichicon charggers are more robust and you get many EV smiles with your car.
kiev = kenny's innovative electric vehicle

Kentril
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Sep 18, 2019 11:49 pm

Re: Troubleshooting and repair for On-board Charger (OBC), DC-DC Converter

Thu Sep 19, 2019 12:21 am

Hello all, I'm having a similar problem as ChristopheFR in this http://myimiev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=4079&start=160#p37320

I have Citroen C-Zero 71km run from FR/JP
After 14 days stays outside in hot weather I came up to my car, and not charging.

Diagnosis: When I plug my charging cable, the green charging light on the cable box comes on for several seconds, I hear a few clicks to the cable and to the car, the car's blower starts a few seconds, then everything stops, no blower, ONLY green light on the cable, and no-fault on the cable or on the dashboard. Seems car is fully charged but apparently not.

Rapid Charging is working perfectly (even to 100 %)
12V Seems has 13V. It hasn't been replaced for 4 years.
The car is driving without any problems.
I bought a new DCDC charger (Is it the 220V charger, right?). But the problem persists.

The dealer told me the Main charging board unit is gone. He needs more money for analysing. He says the price 2500 USD

Could be pre-charged resistors? as said in this post http://myimiev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=4079&start=170#p37324


Anyway, I would try:
    Get from OBSD link any error codes - or I hope can get it from the dealer
    Try to replace 12V Battery - is it possible to connect it to the charger?
    Test if the fuse is ok - how to recognize if the fuse is gone?

Are the parts the same for Peugeot Ion, Citroen C-Zero and iMiev?
Do you have any suggestion about where to buy parts?

Thank you very much for any advice.

Jiri

kiev
Posts: 1123
Joined: Sun May 03, 2015 7:15 am
Location: The Heart o' Dixie
Contact: Website

Re: Troubleshooting and repair for On-board Charger (OBC), DC-DC Converter

Thu Sep 19, 2019 7:08 pm

Howdy Jiri,

Sorry to hear of your problem, failure of OBC is happening all too often.

Christophe was never able to repair or fix his original problem--he bought a used charger that was also failed, but was able to replace the Output snubber capacitors and get it working. His original board was failed on the AC input side and likely blew components within the epoxy-coated waffle plate located below the bottom board, which is not possible to repair.

Since your car runs and keeps the 12-Volt battery charged, we can say that your 20A fuse is okay, and the DC-DC converter board in the bottom plenum of the OBC is okay.

From your description, i suspect that you have either a failure of the output snubbers or something blown on the AC input side. Hopefully no damage within the waffle plate. Review the pictures of the internal layout of other boxes, then open your OBC and inspect and take pictures.

Good Luck to you,
kenny
Last edited by kiev on Wed Jan 29, 2020 5:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
kiev = kenny's innovative electric vehicle

DBMandrake
Posts: 275
Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2017 4:57 am
Location: Scotland

Re: Troubleshooting and repair for On-board Charger (OBC), DC-DC Converter

Sun Nov 03, 2019 11:47 am

Sorry if this has been posted already in this very long thread, but I stumbled across a nice hands on video of the typical DC/DC inverter capacitor and fuse replacement repair on youtube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63ZWosSyq7Q

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynFKclou-LI

Very handy for anyone contemplating doing this repair. Nice that there is also thanks given to this forum at the end of the second video. :)

One question I have about the two capacitors that fail - now that we know there is a service bulletin about this issue (in the US anyway, not here in the UK sadly) and that it says that the capacitors have "low durability", what does that really mean ?

Does it mean:

a) The capacitors themselves are fine but were underspec'ed for the job, for example too low a voltage rating, or wrong type of dielectric ?
b) The capacitors were spec'ed correctly but there was a bad batch of capacitors fitted in a date range that don't live up to their ratings ?

The reason I ask is, what are you guys replacing them with ? If you are just fitting direct equivalents with the same ratings and the problem was that the originals were underspec'ed, that would presumably lead to eventual failure again ?

Would it be wise to replace them with a higher rated capcitor, particullay in relation to voltage rating, dielectic matieral and thermal rating ? Do we know what the cause of failure is ? I'm presuming it's high voltage breakdown of the insulation ?
- Simon

EV: 2011 Peugeot Ion
ICE: 1997 Citroen Xantia V6

misterbleepy
Posts: 222
Joined: Thu Apr 11, 2013 12:53 am
Location: Newquay, Cornwall, UK

Re: Troubleshooting and repair for On-board Charger (OBC), DC-DC Converter

Mon Nov 25, 2019 3:20 am

DBMandrake wrote:Does it mean:

a) The capacitors themselves are fine but were underspec'ed for the job, for example too low a voltage rating, or wrong type of dielectric ?
b) The capacitors were spec'ed correctly but there was a bad batch of capacitors fitted in a date range that don't live up to their ratings ?

The reason I ask is, what are you guys replacing them with ? If you are just fitting direct equivalents with the same ratings and the problem was that the originals were underspec'ed, that would presumably lead to eventual failure again ?

Would it be wise to replace them with a higher rated capcitor, particullay in relation to voltage rating, dielectic matieral and thermal rating ? Do we know what the cause of failure is ? I'm presuming it's high voltage breakdown of the insulation ?


I don't have answers to a) and b), but it would be great if someone else did.

I went for a much higher voltage range on the ones I bought to replace my blown ones - the ones I bought (from Farnell in the UK - order code 1823305) are rated at 6.3kV.
Keith B.
driving with the power of 15.667 kettles

Virusman
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2020 1:21 pm

Re: Troubleshooting and repair for On-board Charger (OBC), DC-DC Converter

Wed Jan 29, 2020 1:35 pm

Hi guys, I need help.
During desoldering I broke one of the capacitors.
See photo:
Image

Value of capacitance will be great, at least color of the capacitor.
Name of IC304 also will be helpfull.
Best regards.

kiev
Posts: 1123
Joined: Sun May 03, 2015 7:15 am
Location: The Heart o' Dixie
Contact: Website

Re: Troubleshooting and repair for On-board Charger (OBC), DC-DC Converter

Wed Jan 29, 2020 5:29 pm

The component that you have circled is actually a resistor on my board, and is marked "331", which measures 330 Ohms.

The IC304 is marked "277 147", which i think is an Op Amp such as the OPA277 from TI. i don't see any vendor marks on the chip. IC301 and IC311 are also this same chip.

Did your ic304 get damaged during desoldering of the waffle plate?

Let us know what you find with your OBC, i'm guessing it was failed for you to be so deep into the board.
kiev = kenny's innovative electric vehicle

Virusman
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2020 1:21 pm

Re: Troubleshooting and repair for On-board Charger (OBC), DC-DC Converter

Fri Jan 31, 2020 3:52 pm

Hi, thanks for your reply it's very helpfull.

4,7Ohm resistor was broken, and someone before me replace blue caps.
I'm not a user of this charger so I'm not sure if that is everythink.
My customer didn't give me any additional information.

Best regards

Easky15
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri Jan 31, 2020 1:07 pm

Re: Troubleshooting and repair for On-board Charger (OBC), DC-DC Converter

Fri Jan 31, 2020 7:39 pm

Evening all, I'm here as i'm trying to fix a 2011 Citroen C-Zero which has a problem with this now famous circuit board,
First thing i noticed on this is 2 cracked ceramic resistors the smaller 7K one looks a bit worse, apart from that no other visible signs of damage.

I've removed all the rubber potting material from around the 2 resistors and de-soldered one complete side of the "waffle plate" and have it half removed, will finish it tomorrow so i have better access to the solder points holding the resistors in place,

My question is does this fault sound familiar to anyone and if so is there anything else i should test.

Also now that i will have good access to all common failing components should i just go ahead and replace them all for fresh/upgraded components or is it a case of "if it's not broke don't fix it"??

Lastly is there a recommended source for buying components as i do NOT want to buy cheap parts and end up needing to remove that waffle plate a second time,

Couldn't see how to add images here on this site so here is a link to some on my google drive
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1FzvQC ... iLObPikOqa

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