WReed82
Posts: 27
Joined: Wed Nov 28, 2018 10:05 am

XS Power 12V battery

Fri Jan 18, 2019 11:27 am

Hi Folks,

Has anybody found a 12V AGM 151R battery for the I-MiEV?

Like the I-MiEV, our 2008 Honda Fit specifies a 151R and I was easily able to fit this battery in it's place:
https://4xspower.com/shop/12v-agm/s-series/s975
It is only rated for 215CCA while the 151R spec calls for 370CCA.
It is 7.83" long x 5.3"wide x 6.67" high.
151R is 7.4" long x 4.9" wide x 8.9" high.
This battery has been in the Fit for over a year now and easily starts the car, even on a very cold morning.
Does anybody have any idea if there is enough room to get one in there?

Thanks and good health, Weogo

JoeS
Site Moderator
Posts: 3629
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2011 5:47 am
Location: Los Altos Hills, California

Re: XS Power 12V battery

Fri Jan 18, 2019 12:52 pm

Hi Weogo, because we have so many 12v battery threads I renamed yours to be XS Power specific.

For completeness, the OEM Yuasa 34B19L(S) shows L = 185mm (7.3"), W = 125mm(4.9"), H = 202mm(8"), Overall H = 224mm(8.8")

Ref: 12V Battery - All You EVer Wanted To Know

I think you need to pull out the battery and measure the i-MiEV battery tray exactly, as I think the length and maybe the width will be a problem. Do let us know what you measure.

No worries about the capacity, as long as you don't plan on -

a) Sitting in the car with the radio blasting for hours.
b) Going away and leaving the car unattended for more than a couple of weeks. This is not a problem if you put a smart float charger (e.g., Battery Tender) on the 12v battery whenever you don't use the i-MiEV for more than a week or two.

The price of that XS Power S975 battery takes my breath away... :shock:
EVs: 2 Wht/Blu SE Prem., '13 Tesla MS85, 3 156v CorbinSparrows (2 Li-ion), 24v EcoScoot(LiFePO4)
EV Conv: 156v '86 Ram PU, 144v '65 Saab 96
Hybrids: 48v1kW bike
ICE: '88 Isuzu Trooper. Mothballed: '67 Saab (orig.owner), '76 MBZ L206D RHD RV

WReed82
Posts: 27
Joined: Wed Nov 28, 2018 10:05 am

Re: XS Power 12V battery

Fri Jan 18, 2019 9:38 pm

Hi Joe,

Thanks for the link sfn all the info!

We don't sit in the car with the radio on, and
it doesn't sit for more than a day or two.

My wife named our I-MiEV Maeve.
Last night when starting and going to READY, the
RBS and MOTOR icons lit up and stayed on.
Turning off, shifting out of Park and back to Park, it started normally, all warning lights went out.
So maybe just a gear selector switch issue, or maybe the battery is going.
The battery appears to be the factory original one, so now five years old.

I'm a fan of AGM batteries.
My 1982 Diesel Toyota Pickup has two Odyssey AGM batteries that are almost 10 years old and still going strong.

Shipped, the XS S975 is $200 from Summit.
The XS batteries are made in China and appear to be good quality.
IF they truly last longer than flooded batteries, the price may be worth it.
To fit, a lifter/spacer in the battery tray would be all that is needed
Front to back would fit fine.
I'm going to pull the XS S975 out of the Honda Fit and see
how well it fits in Maeve, when we get some warmer weather.

Odyysey has a PC680 that would fit, though with lower power specs:
https://shop.odysseybattery.com/p/pc680
It is $130, including shipping.

There are some interesting Lithium 12V batteries:
https://www.batterystuff.com/batteries/ ... hd-rs.html
Kinda pricey! But if it lasts a really long time, this would be ok with me.
I've e-mailed these folks asking for more information.

Will post back when I've made a choice, and how it works over time.

Thanks and good health, Weogo

JoeS
Site Moderator
Posts: 3629
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2011 5:47 am
Location: Los Altos Hills, California

Re: XS Power 12V battery

Sat Jan 19, 2019 11:11 am

WReed82, I'm with you in liking AGMs.
WReed82 wrote:There are some interesting Lithium 12V batteries:
https://www.batterystuff.com/batteries/ ... hd-rs.html
Kinda pricey! But if it lasts a really long time, this would be ok with me. I've e-mailed these folks asking for more information....
More and more lead-acid replacement products are hitting the market. Thanks for posting this link. I'm curious how they handle undervoltage protection. At the other end, they're pushing the LiFePO4 pretty close to its upper limit (14.4/4)... sorta wish we could lower our i-MiEV's dc-dc output a bit, as i think that at low temperatures that voltage is higher.

In the past I've bought a number of items from BatteryStuff, including one of my better 12v battery chargers (BatteryMINDer) because it has a temperature sensor input... but the price has gone up since I bought mine. Since I go up to Medford very often I might pop over to Grant's Pass and visit them - in the past they weren't staffed for anything over the counter.

Edit: whoops, just realized I drifted off-topic. :cry:
EVs: 2 Wht/Blu SE Prem., '13 Tesla MS85, 3 156v CorbinSparrows (2 Li-ion), 24v EcoScoot(LiFePO4)
EV Conv: 156v '86 Ram PU, 144v '65 Saab 96
Hybrids: 48v1kW bike
ICE: '88 Isuzu Trooper. Mothballed: '67 Saab (orig.owner), '76 MBZ L206D RHD RV

WReed82
Posts: 27
Joined: Wed Nov 28, 2018 10:05 am

Re: XS Power 12V battery

Fri Jan 25, 2019 9:13 pm

Hi Folks,

I've been doing some 12V battery research.

Safety first:
Current Lithium batteries really do not do well when charged below freezing.
Imagine it is 5 degrees below freezing. With our I-MiEVs,
the 12V battery turns on some systems, and brings the main battery online.
Pretty quickly circuitry tells the main battery to send some
electrons to the high-voltage-to-12V charger.
With a Lithium 12V battery this is bad, and in fact, one below-freezing charging session
can damage the battery to the point that it is not safe.
FLA and AGM batteries are fine with being charged at below freezing temps.

There are heating options that make it possible to use a Lithium starting battery:
A) Use a continuous parasitic trickle charge to keep the battery warm.
I read that some Teslas do this, and it can be a significant drain on the battery.
OR
B) Use a 12V or 120V heat mat/wrap and insulation to warm the battery before starting.
And convince my wife that she has to start warming the battery thirty minutes
before she can go - not gonna happen.
C) For one company to get UL listing, they have a circuit in the battery
that turns it off below freezing. That's going to save the battery, but
you won't be able to start the car.

NOTE:
Lithium-Titanate batteries are almost ready for prime time;
one suppler said they would have them this year.
These batteries are good down to at least -20F, and possibly lower.
They have a higher cycle life and some other benefits compared to
current Lithium batteries.


The Factory I-MiEV battery tray is 7.25" wide x 5.25" deep, with a rim about .25" high.
It has two protrusions underneath that locate it to the frame.
The tray would be easy to modify for different battery sizes.
Overall there's room for about an 8" wide x 6.5" deep battery.
Note that some 151R batteries are bigger than others.

When buying an alternative battery:
) Make sure you get the positive terminal on the right side.
) Check the post height of a battery, relative to the top. Some batteries
have posts below the top of the battery, and the I-MiEV factory positive terminal,
with all the extra stuff on it, won't fit without an extender.
) Check overall battery height, with posts. Shim as needed
underneath, and maybe over the top,
so when the battery is installed the post height is close to the factory height.


So for now, back to AGM.
Some better options:
) Odyysey PC680, $130, 15.4#, 24 reserve minutes, USA, 3yr warranty
) XS Power S680 is $140, 15.4#. 28 reserve minutes. China. 3yr
) Braille B2317RP is $193, 17#, 45 reserve minutes. USA, 1yr
) Braille B3121 is $230, 21#, 75 reserve minutes. USA, 1yr
There are many other AGM batteries out there. If you find a great one, please post!

The Brailles are pretty high spec.
I think the short warranty is because they are marketed to the racing world.
The B2317RP looks like it would be adequate.
The B3121 stores more energy per dollar and might last longer.


If you just want an inexpensive flooded lead acid battery,
the Bosch 151R is about $105, 19#, has a 3 year warranty and
is listed as maintenance free.


I like batteries that last a really long time -
fewer battery issues, better for the environment.
For now, the 21# Braille looks like a good choice.
Actually, I think our 12V battery is doing pretty well right now;
am guessing it sat on a car lot for a long time and
has been rejuvenated a bit by daily use.

Thanks and good health, Weogo

Don
Site Moderator
Posts: 2803
Joined: Thu May 10, 2012 3:55 pm
Location: Biloxi MS

Re: XS Power 12V battery

Sat Jan 26, 2019 11:00 am

Any AGM battery speced to fit '90 thru '97 Mazda Miatas will work well in the iMiEV. It has more available current than the stock battery and the cost for some of them are as low as $100 shipped. I've had one in one of our cars for about 3 years now. The battery isn't as tall as the stock iMiEV lead acid battery, but if you cut a short piece of 2 x 6 to sit under the battery, all the factory hold down hardware fits fine

Don
2012 iMiEV SE Premium, White
2012 iMiEV SE, White
2017 Chevy Volt Premier
2014 Ford Transit Connect XLT SWB wagon, 14,000 miles
1979 Honda CBX six into six

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