Aerowhatt
Posts: 333
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2015 1:52 pm
Location: Albuquerque NM

Re: Future battery replacement

Sun Apr 16, 2017 7:24 am

I would think that perhaps the best place to look for replacement battery would be to Tesla's Powerwall2. They are using the new 2170 cells that they are making in Nevada. At $5,500.00 for 14 kWh, I haven't found anything less expensive by far. I have not been able to find out how they are configured though. What is the DC voltage of the package??

If one is paying for labor to custom build a pack (or cells) and using quality 18650's to do it. It will most likely cost more than Mitsu replacement cost. and the Mitsu pack would presumably have a warranty. I think "future" is the key word here.

Aerowhatt
2014 cool silver ES, acquired new 4/2015
2014 Labrador Black Pearl ES, acquired new 3/2016

blackheart
Posts: 131
Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2016 9:41 am
Location: Portland Or

Re: Future battery replacement

Wed Apr 19, 2017 7:30 am

Any hope that this would be a real solution in the not so near future?
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/next/tech/super-safe-glass-battery-charges-in-minutes-not-hours/

I'm hoping for one step closer to dilithium crystals for my imiev ;-)
'Is treading water actually swimming - or just prolonged drowning"

-2012 MItsubishi I-Miev - BlackJack
-1989 GMC Sierra 4x4
-2015 RadRover Emonster bike


EVSEupgrade

PV1
Site Moderator
Posts: 2873
Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2012 4:22 pm
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Contact: Website

Re: Future battery replacement

Wed Apr 19, 2017 8:34 am

I wonder what the weight difference is compared to lithium ion.

While energy density increases are always helpful, does anyone else find the charge time claims almost pointless? With Gen2 EV battery packs in the 50-60 kWh range, <1 hour recharge time isn't going to make much difference when the charger can't push enough current to take advantage of the cell's rapid recharge ability. A 50 kW quick charger would still take over an hour to charge up a Bolt, even at full output. A Supercharger, without tapering, would take nearly an hour to recharge a Model S P100D. The issue, more with larger packs than smaller, is the ability to get power to the battery, not the battery taking it in. Our i-MiEVs, on the other hand, suffer cell limits rather early on in a quick charge, but a full charge on a DCQC can still be accomplished in about an hour. But the trend in EVs is larger packs, not smaller.

What's the story is regarding his last name (Goodenough)?
"Bear" - 2012 Diamond White Pearl ES with QC - 2/21/2013
Solar-powered since 10/10/2013

"Koorz" - 2012 Cool Silver Metallic ES with QC - 1/5/2015

2017 Bolt EV LT in Orange with QC - 7/31/2017

Driving electric since 2-21-2013.

Aerowhatt
Posts: 333
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2015 1:52 pm
Location: Albuquerque NM

Re: Future battery replacement

Sun Apr 23, 2017 12:51 pm

PV1 wrote:I wonder what the weight difference is compared to lithium ion.

While energy density increases are always helpful, does anyone else find the charge time claims almost pointless? With Gen2 EV battery packs in the 50-60 kWh range, <1 hour recharge time isn't going to make much difference when the charger can't push enough current to take advantage of the cell's rapid recharge ability. A 50 kW quick charger would still take over an hour to charge up a Bolt, even at full output. A Supercharger, without tapering, would take nearly an hour to recharge a Model S P100D. The issue, more with larger packs than smaller, is the ability to get power to the battery, not the battery taking it in. Our i-MiEVs, on the other hand, suffer cell limits rather early on in a quick charge, but a full charge on a DCQC can still be accomplished in about an hour. But the trend in EVs is larger packs, not smaller.


Agreed charge time claims are pretty pointless.

However large packs I think are a good idea. Imagine a +250 mile range pack that the BMS balanced at from 65 to 70% SOC instead of only near 100%. Then the RR shows ~100 miles and goes turtle at 20% to 25% SOC. Call this "default mode". Then "Trip Mode" (selectable when starting charging and auto reverting to "default mode" at the next charge) would use a discharge profile and limits and top end balancing just like our EV's do today. So you have a highway trip capable EV (with "default mode") that normally has local commuter range. Which on a day to day basis balances the cells and uses the battery in it's highest longevity range of SOC. Likely a 20 year old car with the original battery and 180 miles of trip range remaining would result. Sort of like a Volt without the gas. Plus with the really deep "turtle range" one should never require a tow truck. Even if you really screwed up your planning.

Aerowhatt
2014 cool silver ES, acquired new 4/2015
2014 Labrador Black Pearl ES, acquired new 3/2016

jeffcarroll78s2
Posts: 14
Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2011 7:36 am
Location: Lebanon, Ohio (near Kings Island)

Re: Future battery 16KWH replacement

Sun Apr 23, 2017 5:34 pm

If one only owns one vehicle, a large pack is ideal. Personally, My imiev takes me to the office daily, is taken with us on camping trips, and very often is used to haul 8' long construction materials. Many pick-up trucks can't do that! Tesla has called me several times, and my response has always been the same:
" When you make a (4) door car that weighs 2500lbs or less (ideal weight for towing long distance), is as efficient as the i, recharges on any electric service or receptacle in the US, costs $16K and cost nothing more than the price of tires to maintain, give me call!
I wouldn't change anything, about the battery size or get into paralling small cells. Series strings, of 50A cells, are ideal for many reasons. The KISS principle applies. Tesla owners will be in for a surprise when their vehicles are out of warranty, and things start going wrong. I have the equipment and ability to repair or replace the pack in the i...Very few Tesla owners will be capable of this. "Man's got to know his Limitations"!

Jeff in Cincy

jray3
Posts: 1369
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2011 1:05 am
Location: Tacoma area, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Future battery replacement

Wed Aug 09, 2017 3:25 pm

http://insideevs.com/gs-yuasa-promises-range-doubling-ev-battery-by-2020/

Getting a 120 mile replacement battery (with a Mitsu warranty :roll: ) around 2020-2022 would do very nicely to stretch out MR BEAN's car-eer. At that point he'll be past 120,000 miles, so capacity degradation should be noticeable. Plus, my eldest gets her license to drive in 2022, and I'm not sure which is better, a 50 mile leash plus Daddy's Tow Service, or a battery that she can thrash all the way to Seattle and back... I'm leaning towards the leash. 16 year olds have no business going into the big city without a chaperone! One thing's for sure, she's in love with MR BEAN and I doubt there will be whining for something 'better' when the time comes..
2012 i-SE "MR BEAN" 76,000 miles
i-ES traded at 21,648 miles
2000 Honda Odyssey
1987 F250 Diesel
1983 Grumman Kurbwatt,170 kW, 32 kWh
1983 Mazda RX-7 EV 43 kW 10 kWh
1971 "Karmann Eclectric" EV 240 kW 19 kWh
1965 Karmann Ghia Cabriolet

Phximiev
Posts: 1097
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2015 7:25 pm
Location: Phoenix

Re: Future battery replacement

Thu Aug 10, 2017 7:13 am

The question is whether it would fit the iMiev.
2012 iMIEV ES
2014 Chevy Volt

jray3
Posts: 1369
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2011 1:05 am
Location: Tacoma area, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Future battery replacement

Mon Oct 23, 2017 9:03 am

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1113332_toshiba-claims-6-minute-recharge-for-new-electric-car-battery-cell

Stories on this next-gen SCiB from Toshiba refer to its testing in a 'compact EV' which I assume would be a MiEV variant (personally, I'd toss a pack in a Minicab MiEV cargo bay for testing).

I keep my eyes peeled for battery upgrade and replacement options. This morning's chilly weather with defrost on the Max setting brought a RR of 35 miles, which is the lowest I've EVer seen. The first capacity bar is also disappearing sooner than I'm accustomed too in heater-free driving. Time to dredge up an Android device for a check via Canion.
2012 i-SE "MR BEAN" 76,000 miles
i-ES traded at 21,648 miles
2000 Honda Odyssey
1987 F250 Diesel
1983 Grumman Kurbwatt,170 kW, 32 kWh
1983 Mazda RX-7 EV 43 kW 10 kWh
1971 "Karmann Eclectric" EV 240 kW 19 kWh
1965 Karmann Ghia Cabriolet

Don
Site Moderator
Posts: 2485
Joined: Thu May 10, 2012 3:55 pm
Location: Biloxi MS

Re: Future battery replacement

Mon Oct 23, 2017 12:06 pm

A newer technology battery with a higher density which weighs the same as our current pack but has a range of 80 to 100 miles instead of the current 60 to 80 miles would be welcome . . . . but the odds of anybody making such a thing as a drop in replacement for our LEV50 packs is . . . . pretty slim, I would guess

It's a nimble, light, near perfect urban city car which will never be something I'd care to drive cross country, so long range, quick charge rates and all that is very, very secondary. I wouldn't want it to weigh anymore than it currently does - That would be important, at least to me

Don
2012 iMiEV SE Premium, White
2012 iMiEV SE, White
2014 Ford Transit Connect XLT SWB wagon, 14,000 miles
1994 Miata 60K miles - Soon to be sold
1979 Honda CBX six into six

rnlcarlov
Posts: 48
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2016 8:30 am

Re: Future battery replacement

Fri Oct 27, 2017 6:55 am

If they make a car not wider than the imiev, then it's fine by me that they don't provide a battery upgrade. But so far I'm not seeing any maker interested in making a car as slim as the imiev, so I'm really hoping for an upgrade option, unlikely as it may be.

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