acensor
Posts: 340
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2013 7:17 pm
Location: Southern Oregon

Re: Mitsubishi website

Sat Jun 17, 2017 7:09 am

mievsolar wrote:They where not serious about the car in the first place. Just another compliance car like so many other EV's on the market. Of course they are coming out with one that they are in partnership with Nissan. So the MiEV will be history and also one of the least expensive VE's sold in the USA. Going to be a while till we get an EV on the market that will be as inexpensive as the MiEv. I just hope that they support it with a new battery pack replacement when my battery pack needs replacement.



Not sure if they weren't serous, or just incomletsnt marketers on USA EV nitch market...and entered a tad too early?
IMO serous enough in Japan and Europe.

There are over 50,000 iMiEV's worldwide. Hopefully enough so by timr we need batteries third parties will supply cheaper. And, even without battery breakthroughs, slow evolution is definitely already reducing the price.
That's what happen with the Prius. When this first owners purchased they were looking at $7000 down the line to replace their small batteries. Today they can get one dealer installed for 3500, or third-party for as low as 1000.
Alex
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SE 2012 white with blue trim, powered by PV plus hydro
2001 Subaru Forester L
Two Trek street/trail bicycles optimized for mild around town use

rnlcarlov
Posts: 50
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2016 8:30 am

Re: Mitsubishi website

Sat Jun 17, 2017 8:00 am

acensor wrote:There are over 50,000 iMiEV's worldwide. Hopefully enough so by timr we need batteries third parties will supply cheaper. And, even without battery breakthroughs, slow evolution is definitely already reducing the price.
That's what happen with the Prius. When this first owners purchased they were looking at $7000 down the line to replace their small batteries. Today they can get one dealer installed for 3500, or third-party for as low as 1000.


I sure hope that happens. I don't know about you, but some people here in Portugal asked the dealer what the price for replacing the battery was, and they were told something along €15000 (possibly more).
I really don't plan on changing my car (no other EV fits in my narrow garage), so I'm really counting on the whizzes to work up some of their magic. There is a reasonable number of triplets running around in the major cities, so maybe there's enough demand.... hopefully the know-how, too.

RobbW
Posts: 400
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Location: Elgin, IL

Re: Mitsubishi website

Mon Jun 19, 2017 8:08 am

In the US, aren't car manufacturers required by law to provide 10 years of replacement parts availability for any model year? If so, then Mitsu should be on the hook to make parts available for iMiEVs until 2026 or so, right?

Wait. Were the 2016s ever actually released in the US?
Clear Skies,
Robb

EV: 2012 Mitsubishi i-MiEV SE, Raspberry Metallic, Premium Package - Purchased 07/11/13
PHEV: 2017 Chrysler Pacifica eHybrid, Bright White, Platinum Package - Purchased 05/01/17

jray3
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Contact: Website

Re: Mitsubishi website

Mon Jun 19, 2017 1:30 pm

RobbW wrote:Wait. Were the 2016s ever actually released in the US?


Sure were, and a few new ones are still listed on Cars.com
https://www.cars.com/for-sale/searchres ... t&zc=98390

They also show half-a dozen under $6k, including a 2012 raspberry SE with 73k miles on the clock!
2012 i-SE "MR BEAN" 76,000 miles
i-ES traded at 21,648 miles
2000 Honda Odyssey
1987 F250 Diesel
1983 Grumman Kurbwatt,170 kW, 32 kWh
1983 Mazda RX-7 EV 43 kW 10 kWh
1971 "Karmann Eclectric" EV 240 kW 19 kWh
1965 Karmann Ghia Cabriolet

phb10186
Posts: 242
Joined: Fri May 13, 2016 12:58 am
Location: North London suburbs, UK

Re: Mitsubishi website

Tue Jun 20, 2017 2:51 am

RobbW wrote:In the US, aren't car manufacturers required by law to provide 10 years of replacement parts availability for any model year? If so, then Mitsu should be on the hook to make parts available for iMiEVs until 2026 or so, right?

Wait. Were the 2016s ever actually released in the US?


They may be required to supply the parts, but they are not required to supply them at what we would call a rational price point.
2012 I-MIEV Keiko Silver 11K
2010 Insight ES-T 43K
2001 Accord Type-V (F23 manual)
2009 Hornet CB600F
2008 SH300

rnlcarlov
Posts: 50
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2016 8:30 am

Re: Mitsubishi website

Wed Jun 21, 2017 5:21 am

phb10186 wrote:
They may be required to supply the parts, but they are not required to supply them at what we would call a rational price point.


Precisely. And if iMiev parts today aren't exactly cheap, imagine a few years down the line... :?

phb10186
Posts: 242
Joined: Fri May 13, 2016 12:58 am
Location: North London suburbs, UK

Re: Mitsubishi website

Wed Jun 21, 2017 6:01 am

rnlcarlov wrote:
phb10186 wrote:
They may be required to supply the parts, but they are not required to supply them at what we would call a rational price point.


Precisely. And if iMiev parts today aren't exactly cheap, imagine a few years down the line... :?


The Lean approach to car parts after-sales supply would imply that manufacturers would only keep a limited number of parts at any one time - not warehouses full. Where masses of parts are made when the production runs (and they probably keep production going until parts ordered have been exhausted by overwhelming majority), the stocks once production ends are a totally different ball game - small numbers, and small volume replenishment. Thats very expensive to maintain, so thats why parts prices are about 10 times the cost you think they should be. In addition, the battery packs are large, and I can't see how Mitsubishi could do anything other than keep about 10 packs available for parts at any one time (or a small number nonetheless). They can't be stored with cells in for ages (unlike traditional parts), meaning that they are a large, heavy item that needs producing on an as-needed basis and then shipped half way round the globe. So, it's no wonder that the cost is massive, as you are actually paying for a small scale production legacy supply.

This has always been my reasoning for designing packs that can be serviced fairly easily, not the way all the manufacturers do it presently. The fact that a whole pack is binned for probably only one cell going bad is also tragically inefficient, and against the aspirations of EV drivers in the main probably. It's not the best answer to the problem by Mitsubishi, it's just an answer. They should have mounted the pack 180 degrees to how they did it!

In days gone by I used to drive a 1985 BMW 6-series. BMW used to (no longer actually) maintain availability of any part for any model of theirs made since I think about 1968 or so through some very long German titled process. The parts prices for that car were astronomical to begin with, but at a certain age and time BMW outsourced spare parts supplies to a 3rd party, who then supplied them through the BMW dealer network. The customer was able to get what they wanted, but the prices went through the roof, and the quality of some of the parts was not up to BMWs QC standards... anyway that particular cars underside rusted out a long time ago now (as well as most of the rest of it), which was probably more of a blessing in disguise in many ways.
2012 I-MIEV Keiko Silver 11K
2010 Insight ES-T 43K
2001 Accord Type-V (F23 manual)
2009 Hornet CB600F
2008 SH300

Jasmin
Posts: 8
Joined: Sat Sep 19, 2015 10:58 am

Re: Mitsubishi website

Sun Jul 02, 2017 11:37 am

I wonder what this means for the Peugeot Partner / Citroen Berlingo Electrique compact vans? They use the Imiev drivetrain (with 22.5kwh battery packs no less!) and I believe PSA have a fleet contracts with several utility companies and government bodies in the EU for significant numbers.

I think Mitsu have seriously dropped the ball with the imiev and would have stood to recoup much more of their investment if they stayed the course. The Zoe is a more accomplished vehicle, but is lumbered with Renault's god-awful battery lease and clever but somewhat dead-end AC rapid charging. Yes you can buy it without without a lease, but at a hefty price premium, and outside of Europe the charging situation for 48kw rapid AC is poor to non-existent.

Another competitor is the VW E-up, which like unicorns, may be an urban myth, for the numbers of them you get. It's also only available in Europe, as far as I know. It is also stupidly expensive, about 65% more, for directly comparable battery size. Both of these are a shame as I think it's the best evolutionary improvement.

Finally there is the Smart ForFour. It costs way more. It was no rapid charge ability whatsoever. It is larger than the Miev, but less practical. Range is comparable, except you can't charge it on the highway, unless spending 4-5 hours starting at motorway traffic and inhaling the petro fumes from the servo is a big hobby of yours.

Up the quality of the the interior, put the revised cells used in the PSA Partner/Berlingo in there. It'll cost pocket money to do in the wider scheme of things and Mitsu could really bring something to the Nissan-Renault Alliance :

0. Twizy. Because f*ck you. We want you to die of hypothermia. Slowly. No, fair enough. it's a fun beach buggy for messing about in summer, and if marketed correctly (perhaps with a modified Twizy 2 with proper doors) could find a niche with fleets for delivery companies / couriers / post offices etc., and perhaps urban car club / hourly hire? Maybe Renault branding for the "fun" one, and Nissan for the "serious" version?

1. New I-miev: Affordable, practical no frills but well built and rugged EV (maybe market it in Europe as a Dacia?). Perfect for commuting, "2nd car", first car for new drivers, anyone on a budget or who just wants to go A to B. Great too for fleets as site runabouts - i.e. airports, universities, big corporate campuses etc. Van versions for postal/local delivery services?

2. Zoe / Micra: Young, fun EV - zoom zoom. I'm assuming these will be basically be the same car with minor differences (Chademo on the Micra, or will both migrate to CCS for Europe?)

3. Leaf: Family car. Reliable, sensible, room enough for a labrador, and taking gran out to the weekender. Also great for fleets.

4. E-NV200. New battery pack - 40 or 60? Fleets, taxis, big families with kids, buggies and people who like to take their neighbours kids to football practice.

5. Outlander PHEV. The mandatory SUV. Why? Only the gods know, but in Europe you can't move for them. They sell. Kick up the battery game to make it a Volt competitor. It should be easily possible to get it to 15-18kwh, possibly more and introduce some efficiency improvements. The only other SUV EV game in town is the Model X, so it's a clear run.

5. Future executive model? Something to replace the Renault Fluence, with an upmarket/executive feel. Big battery. Leather, wood, chrome, all that stuff.

If Mitsu won't do justice for the Miev, maybe another manufacturer like Mahindra-Ssangyong will buy up the design, modernise it, and do it justice. I'm not optimistic, but I sincerely hope so. Reva's E2O has struggled badly, and the Miev would be a clear path forward for a more accomplished EV in the same basic mould.

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