Don
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Re: Best charging practices for battery longevity

Fri Jul 19, 2013 1:06 pm

olagon wrote:What about using a light timer? You can buy one at a local hardware store for $5. They have some rated for 15 amps so good enough at the 110 charging level. Easy to set start and stop time mechanically.
I have two mechanical timers - One for 120 and one for 240, but truth be told, I rarely use either one to do the charging simply because readjusting them for each individual session is such a pain - I *thought* they were going to be a great idea, but it just didn't work out that way

What I do now is a quick mental calculation of about how long it needs to charge, depending on whether I'm using 240 or more likely 120 and then I set the kitchen timer for the time I think it needs and go unplug it when the timer chimes. After awhile, you get pretty accurate with your time guesstimation, so I only need one trip out to the garage. If it's not quite 'done', I just give it half an hour or so more and then unplug it

Don
2012 iMiEV SE Premium, White
2012 iMiEV SE, White
2014 Ford Transit Connect XLT SWB wagon, 14,000 miles
1994 Miata 60K miles - Soon to be sold
1979 Honda CBX six into six

JoeS
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Re: Best charging practices for battery longevity

Fri Jul 19, 2013 9:42 pm

This thread has diverted into a number of separate topics:

1. Best charging practice for Robb's situation
2. Remote use with Leviton L2 EVSE
3. External timers

1. If we could, please, let's address only charging practices on this thread.
2. I've started a fresh thread to address Robb's issues with the Remote and his Leviton
3. Here's the thread for manual timers Better Charging Controls

You'll understand my frustration when you try to find some of the excellent points being made six months from now.
EVs: 2 Wht/Blu SE Prem., '13 Tesla S85, 3 156v CorbinSparrows (2 Li-ion), 24v EcoScoot(LiFePO4)
EV Conv: 156v '86 Ram PU, 144v '65 Saab 96
Hybrids: 48v1kW bike
ICE: '88 Isuzu Trooper. Mothballed: '67 Saab (orig.owner), '76 MBZ L206D RHD RV

JoeS
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Re: Best charging practices for battery longevity

Fri Jul 19, 2013 10:10 pm

RobbW wrote:... It would be most convenient to simply plug my i into the L2 charger every night and know that I will wake up in the morning with a full "tank" that will take me everywhere I need to go and then some....
RobbW, the body of knowledge regarding large-format Lithium-Ion batteries of various chemistries has been increasing over the last few years. You will not only find a great deal of speculation by some of us on this forum (especially in the early days), but also links to various studies as they have appeared. There are lots of similar discussions on the Leaf and Tesla forums. So far we do not appear to have the hot-climate issue as the Leaf.

The more I read, the less I worry about the projected life of our iMiEV traction pack; however, some definite do's and don't are emerging, the most important one is that subjecting batteries to high temperatures is bad. Since there's little we can do about that in our daily lives (we all do park in the shade, don't we?), about all we can do is avoid high SOC (State Of Charge) at high temperatures, and especially leaving the car sitting for extended periods of time at high SOC in a hot climate.

For now, in your case, I would simply learn to program the Remote to start charging at some time at night so that you've just reached 16 bars when you're ready to leave for work. Figure 3 bars/charginghour using L2 or 4bars/5charging hours using L1. You've probably already noticed that you're arriving home with a half-dozen bars on your fuel gauge after a 'typical' day's commute. As you get comfortable, you can probably start playing with the timer to terminate your charge at around 14-15 bars. In these early days of iMiEV ownership, don't worry about it as it's more important that you develop a feel for the car's range in response to your driving habits.
EVs: 2 Wht/Blu SE Prem., '13 Tesla S85, 3 156v CorbinSparrows (2 Li-ion), 24v EcoScoot(LiFePO4)
EV Conv: 156v '86 Ram PU, 144v '65 Saab 96
Hybrids: 48v1kW bike
ICE: '88 Isuzu Trooper. Mothballed: '67 Saab (orig.owner), '76 MBZ L206D RHD RV

9h1bw
Posts: 10
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Re: My Car is Only Charging Up to 12 Bars

Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:35 am

I have been reading that a traction battery should not be full charged. Does this also apply to the iMeiv?
I charge mine at home and the charger keeps on charging up to 16 notches. Is this OK or should I stop it before. If yes up to which notch should it be charged?

JoeS
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Re: Best charging practices for battery longevity

Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:19 am

9h1bw, I moved your post over to this thread. Your question is one we all asked in our early days of ownership, and there are many threads on this forum dealing with this topic, this being just one of them.

Now, after six years of experience and a much larger body of data and quite a number of controlled studies, some generalizations have emerged -

The most degradation to Lithium Ion batteries is caused by high temperature AND high state of charge. Second to that is attempting to rapidly charge the battery at very low temperatures. In both of these, our Mitsubishi battery management system tries to protect it but, for example, can't do anything if you fully charge the battery and let the car sit unused in a very high temperature environment (cringe).

In my own case, the only time I fully charge the car is JUST BEFORE I take off on a long trip; otherwise, I normally charge to about 12 bars (using either the Remote or a mechanical timer to stop the charge) and almost never let the charge level drop below two bars (in over 80,000 i-MiEV miles we've never seen turtle). Also, if you leave the car unused for a few weeks, leave it at around 4-6 bars (some say lower) and be sure to put a float (not old-fashioned 'trickle') charger on the 12v battery.

Our i-MiEV battery pack and its BMS is wonderfully rugged and when conservatively maintained has been able to provide an almost un-noticeable difference in the car's range after many tens of thousands of miles - speculation being that one of the reasons is that any capacity loss merely takes away from the turtle 'reserve' and is thus invisible.
EVs: 2 Wht/Blu SE Prem., '13 Tesla S85, 3 156v CorbinSparrows (2 Li-ion), 24v EcoScoot(LiFePO4)
EV Conv: 156v '86 Ram PU, 144v '65 Saab 96
Hybrids: 48v1kW bike
ICE: '88 Isuzu Trooper. Mothballed: '67 Saab (orig.owner), '76 MBZ L206D RHD RV

phb10186
Posts: 177
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Location: North London suburbs, UK

Re: Best charging practices for battery longevity

Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:52 am

I think that the charging to 12 bars is one that more should adopt - It's a shame there isnt a dial charge stop in the car, where you can preset the max charge. Just thought that that would be a good idea - the remote is not the best device out there, but I suppose it does work.
2012 I-MIEV Keiko Silver 11K
2010 Insight ES-T 43K
2001 Accord Type-V (F23 manual)
2009 Hornet CB600F
2008 SH300

Don
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Re: Best charging practices for battery longevity

Thu Apr 20, 2017 11:34 am

phb10186 wrote:I think that the charging to 12 bars is one that more should adopt - It's a shame there isnt a dial charge stop in the car, where you can preset the max charge
Many EV's do indeed have that feature. I wish ours did too. We rarely ever recharge either of our cars to 100% . . . . unless we just forget to go unplug them in time. A full recharge every 4 or 5 weeks is probably a good thing . . . . and in spite of our best efforts, we forget to unplug in time at least that often

Don
2012 iMiEV SE Premium, White
2012 iMiEV SE, White
2014 Ford Transit Connect XLT SWB wagon, 14,000 miles
1994 Miata 60K miles - Soon to be sold
1979 Honda CBX six into six

Luddite
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Joined: Tue Apr 11, 2017 8:34 am
Location: Scotland, UK

Re: Best charging practices for battery longevity

Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:18 pm

Nice to see these forums are still alive!

I am a relatively new owner of an ion, but I noticed that the manual of the i-miev (US version) states that
"What do I do if I need to store my mitsubishi i for a long period of time?

Do not disconnect the battery or any of the i's cables. Make sure the battery's energy level gauge shows 2-4 bars and make sure all lights are turned off. Do not leave the battery charged with more than 4 bars as this will severely decrease the main drive battery's overall lifespan. Check the battery residual every three months and if you see any discharge, please charge to 2-4 bars. Try to avoid storage in a hot or cold environment."

The peugeot ion/citroen c-zero manual both state that

"When your vehicle is going to be out of use for a long period, charge the main battery completely every three months (following the normal
charging procedure)."

They can't both be right so can anyone explain this one?
Not that I ever plan on storing the car - I plan on driving it!

Don,have you used canion to see your battery's capacity?
Have you repaced your 12v battery yet?
That's the battery I'm more worried about!
..........................................................
2011 Peugeot Ion

Don
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Re: Best charging practices for battery longevity

Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:40 pm

I think they want you to plug the car in periodically to maintain the 12 volt battery - It recharges when the traction battery does, so 30 minutes or so would top it off and add next to nothing to the traction battery using the USA version 8 amp, 120 volt EVSE . . . . or, since they say to fully recharge it periodically, maybe then drive it far enough to get the traction pack back down to 3 or 4 bars?

Yes, I replaced the 12 volt battery in our original car (purchased in May of 2012) with a Miata AGM battery. The one in the other car is still going strong. We had the original car stored for about a year and did NOT plug it in occasionally to keep up the 12 volt battery and that may be why it needed replacing. Should have removed it and put it on a trickle charger

Nope - Haven't tried Canion yet

Don
2012 iMiEV SE Premium, White
2012 iMiEV SE, White
2014 Ford Transit Connect XLT SWB wagon, 14,000 miles
1994 Miata 60K miles - Soon to be sold
1979 Honda CBX six into six

JoeS
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Re: Best charging practices for battery longevity

Thu Apr 20, 2017 4:46 pm

Luddite, welcome to the forum! Whereabouts in Scotland are you (I was born in Edinburgh)?
Luddite wrote:...I noticed that the manual of the i-miev (US version) states..."What do I do if I need to store my mitsubishi i for a long period of time? -
Do not disconnect the battery or any of the i's cables. Make sure the battery's energy level gauge shows 2-4 bars and make sure all lights are turned off. Do not leave the battery charged with more than 4 bars as this will severely decrease the main drive battery's overall lifespan. Check the battery residual every three months and if you see any discharge, please charge to 2-4 bars. Try to avoid storage in a hot or cold environment."
Wow, I immediately pulled out my 2012 manual and went looking and could find no mention of storage charge. We have at least one thread on this forum discussing just that topic, and 2-4 bars sounds better than 4-6 bars. I recall attending a presentation where it was shown that Leafs are shipped at 25%SoC.

Beats me why the European manuals state that the battery should be fully charged - perhaps the tech writers failed to consult with the battery engineers (who failed to catch this when they reviewed the manual) and are going by the old 12v lead-acid protocol?

What is important is that the 12v battery be maintained, and a float charger would do that just fine or, if outdoors, a small solar panel with a regulated output would suffice.

Whereas CaniOn is a great i-MiEV app, the app EVBatMon provides a direct capacity readout from the car itself.
EVs: 2 Wht/Blu SE Prem., '13 Tesla S85, 3 156v CorbinSparrows (2 Li-ion), 24v EcoScoot(LiFePO4)
EV Conv: 156v '86 Ram PU, 144v '65 Saab 96
Hybrids: 48v1kW bike
ICE: '88 Isuzu Trooper. Mothballed: '67 Saab (orig.owner), '76 MBZ L206D RHD RV

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