Took Delivery of my Miev SE trim Today 31 Jul 12; Thread # 8

1.Hello to all you out there. Delivery finally happened and the Miev is in the garage. I have very limited empirical data on performance/economy, but I will share with you. When I took possession of the car the RR read 67 and the "tank" was almost at 16 bars. Today was another hot day in San Antonio with the temperature at the time of delivery being about 91 degrees. Needless to say I turned on the A/C and the RR dropped to 56, a not unexpected result. I decided to avoid expressways and took surface roads to my home. A/C on at all times, but not in the "max" settings. Distance according to trip meter was 7.6 miles. My speed was about 25 to 40 MPH. Drove most of the trip in ECO mode with a few attempts at the B mode. Still trying to get the hang of the B mode. I used it primarily when I was rolling towards traffic lights. Terrain was relatively flat. When I arrived at home the RR was 59 without A/C and 47 with A/C engaged. So I guess my efficiency needs some work. I used 9 of the RR with A/C on for a 7.6 mile trip, or I guess another way to look at it I used 8 of the RR with no A/C, but A/C was on so I guess the number of 8 has little meaning. I know; not many data points, but I have to start somewhere. When I got home the number of bars remaining was just about 14 (it's hard to count them with my 68 year old eyes).

2. I decided to try out the manufacturer provided Level 1 charger; I know I normally should not charge with just two bars to charge, but I wanted to try it out. Did not use the remote to do the charge. I learned that the dashboard red charging light stays illuminated throughout the charge and the key light to watch is the charging light on the Level 1 charger itself. When it goes out, the charge is complete. After the charge the RR read 71. When I engaged the A/C with the settings described above the RR dropped to 50.It took about three hours to "fill" the two bars back to 16, which I guess is an expected result.

3. I plan on using the remote to do the charge at some future point, but first I want to run the bars down to about 7 or 8, and do a charge without the remote to see if I get an expected result of about 10 to 12 hours to "fill" it up. Probably will do that this weekend. At some point I have to get my confidence up and take the Miev on a short expressway trip with the A/C on and confirm that I can get about 40 miles, and still have about 3 or 4 bars left as a "reserve".

4. I was not overly impressed with the dealer delivery process. They went through the motions, but it soon became apparent to me, that I knew more about the features than the sales guy did. He only received four hours of training from Mitsubishi in Dallas for several south Texas dealerships. However the standard make ready process for delivery of any vehicle left a lot to be desired. The interior was only given a surface touch; I will fix that this weekend with some "elbow grease". Probably the biggest complaint I have was the tire pressure in the tires. After the Miev was sitting still for about four hours, I checked the pressure. Rear tires were just about at 50 psi and the front tires were at about 39 to 40 psi. Not even close to the owner's manual statement of 36 psi for all four. I plan on bringing the psi to about 44 psi (which is about the difference between 36 psi and the sidewall max of 51 psi). I will check tires again the AM and adjust tires after the AM measurement.

5. Any comments/thoughts on above are appreciated. Bill Thompson. Thank you for taking the time to read this thread.

Congratulations on your new purchase.
We have been enjoying ours for about a month now. The Miev is a lot of fun & once you get a little more familiar with your everyday driving routes, you won't be so focused on the RR Gauge.
We do a little more planning for those longer trips (Where you can charge (top-off to get back home) during the day, preferably at or near your destination).

We tank up every night if the RR shows below 50 miles (80 km) or have a big trip planned and are ready to go in the morning.
We decided today to up grade the Portable charger that comes with the car for a faster rate of charge & versatility in option 240V or 110v
Hope you enjoy yours as much as we do ours

I wasn't too impressed with the dealer trained people either, but I guess you gotta go there to pick up the car

Our guy went through the book and told us all about the wonderful features on our particular car - He even told us how much we would like the blue-tooth phone features and how handy the quick charge port would be when charging stations become available . . . . unfortuntely, our car came with neither

I guess we're different users than sandange because now that we're really familiar with then car, about the only thing we do look at is the RR meter - I think they stuck the gas gauge on there just to make those used to driving ICE powered vehicles comfortable. To me, it's just about worthless and as you mentioned, the individual digits are pretty hard to distinguish

I try not to recharge unless the battery is halfway discharged or more, so we don't charge everyday unless we know that a trip the next day will require it. We seldom make trips longer than 8 or 10 miles, so recharging every second or third day is working really well for us. We use the Level 1 charger (modified to 12.5 amps) at least 95% of the time - Level 2 is reserved for those rare days when we've run the pack down and we still have more errands to run

Luckily, they did give us 3 completely different driving modes so there should be one for every style driver. Now that we're used to the car, we just stick it in the B mode and leave it there. It most closely resembles an ICE with a manual transmission and that's all we've ever owned - When you lift your foot off the pedal, the car slows down. If you've always driven automatic tranmissions, the D mode is the most similar to that as the car coasts more when you lift and you use the brakes to slow. Personally, I never use Eco because it really limits the power available . . . . when I need that extra punch in an emergency, it wouldn't be there. With the 3 modes, there's something there to suit everyone

By all means, take it for a spin on the freeway. Even with the A/C on, you'll go farther than 40 miles . . . . you'll also quickly figure out that if you need maximum range, high speeds are not your friend. The car is so quiet that at 65 or 70 you can actually hear it pushing a hole in the air

Don

Congratulations, Bill.

That was a fun day for you, for sure. I remember picking up my car but I bought it a long distance from my house so the dealership put it on a flatbed trailer and we met at a rest area off the highway. Since I knew so much about the car I just let the sales guy give me the 5 second tour and let him know I'd call if I had any questions. He seemed to want to get out of there and back to the dealership to sell more cars and happy I let him off the hook so easy. We signed the papers and he was gone.

I was 40 kilometers from home, so I just went for it. Put it on the highway and set the A/C. I drove 90 kmh on a 100 kmh max highway. I know that is just a suggestion as most drivers are so willing to fork over their hard earned cash to the oil companies by driving well above the speed limit. I find at 90 kmh, I can go quite far in Eco mode and I find I enjoy the drive in a much more relaxed and enjoyable pace than frantically trying to get to my destination.

I drive my i in a different fashion than either Sandage or Don do. I use both gauges to help balance between range and use. The 'fuel' gauge is a definite, that tells me exactly what I have in the 'tank'. The RR is an estimate, although a good estimate - it still is an estimate. I keep my eyes on both, as the RR is an instantaneous result of my actions in the car and the 'Fuel' gauge is showing me what I have left. The better I drive the better the RR looks and the longer I know my 'Fuel' will last. I also use the amp meter in the middle to help me keep it in the Green or Regen mode as much as possible.

As far as the the drive mode - again I use all three. Each one behaves in a different way and I use them based on where I'm going and how far I plan to travel and the availability of recharging. D is definitely the most fun but I only use that on short trips with the availability to recharge. Medium range trips I used the B mode and for my long distance commute I used the Eco mode.

Enjoy the car and enjoy the learning. You'll find your own path, this car will become beautifully suited to your style of driving.

Bill - congratulations! One of the reasons I bought the car now (instead of waiting) is the fear that the manufacturer would dumb-down the future iMiEV; specifically, having the ability to shift amongst N-D-Eco-B gives me the flexibility/control that I like and I would not want to lose this. Each of us develops our own driving style, and, as Don mentioned, the three modes keep each of us happy.

Don said:

...Personally, I never use Eco because it really limits the power available . . . . when I need that extra punch in an emergency, it wouldn't be there.

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Don, a minor correction: I believe that if you stomp on it in Eco mode you DO get full power - the pedal is simply harder to push, that's all. Good safety feature.

I may have not been very clear with my previous posting..
I do use the RR gauge as my principal reference.

The Miev is a lot of fun & once you get a little more familiar with your everyday driving routes, you won't be so focused on the RR Gauge.

Click to expand...

When I first got my Miev, being unfamiliar with driving an electric car -
I was checking the RR gauge every other minute.
As I drove my regular routes I realized I was well with in my driving limits and did not need to check the RR gauge as often.
This gave me certain level of comfort and a much more relaxed experience.

I believe this would be most new EV drivers experience.


Many other do not believe in charging up full
We keep it charged up on the higher side

We have our reasons
In our case this is our only vehicle,
We are near retirement age
Should a medical emergency come up
we may need need to get to a hospital.

I guess this could apply to a young family with children too

Don, a minor correction: I believe that if you stomp on it in Eco mode you DO get full power - the pedal is simply harder to push, that's all. Good safety feature.

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That is true, I can confirm this. I use Eco mode a lot and the other day I needed to punch it and the car shot forward when it got out of the green zone. No hazard of being in Eco and not able to launch this car into hyperspeed.

JoeS said:

Don said:

...Personally, I never use Eco because it really limits the power available . . . . when I need that extra punch in an emergency, it wouldn't be there.

Click to expand...

Don, a minor correction: I believe that if you stomp on it in Eco mode you DO get full power - the pedal is simply harder to push, that's all. Good safety feature.

Click to expand...

In my car, that doesn't appear to ber the case Joe - No matter how hard I stomp it in the Eco mode, it moves out like a slug

The reveiws I've read seem to say this is normal. Car & Driver - "In the eco mode, the computer restricts the output from the 63-peak-hp permanent-magnet drive motor and its one-speed gear-reduction transmission, even if you floor it."

Another road test - "In Eco mode, the car is configured to maximise range. The car limits acceleration, so even when you floor the accelerator, it feels somewhat sluggish, and the car will also limit the maximum speed"

And a review from Plug In Cars.com which gives some actual numbers - "The car offers three driving modes: Standard, Eco, and “B”. The Eco mode limits the engine’s output to 18 kilowatts (one third of peak power), to increase the range of a single charge—and the decline in performance was substantial."

That last one pretty well describes what driving my car in the Eco mode is like - One third power no matter how hard I press the pedal

You can get the same benefit in either the D or the B mode if you're careful with the pedal - I regularly accelerate away from a stop without the needle every going to the right of the straight up mark on the gauge. It does require you to mind your P's and Q's though, whereas the Eco mode does it for you even when you're not thinking . . . . but if this car regularly performed as it does in the Eco mode, I wouldn't have bought it - If it's not fun to drive, I'm not interested

Don

Don said:

...That last one pretty well describes what driving my car in the Eco mode is like - One third power no matter how hard I press the pedal

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Don - I'll have you know that your comment prompted me to go out and take the iMiEV for a joyride - much to my wife's dismay as we had just come back from seeing a movie in Palo Alto and the full recharge at the public EVSE had given us a RR=95! Perhaps my iMiEV performs differently from yours, because flooring it in Eco does indeed pin the red needle all the way over to the right, at the same rate as D and B! Anyone else?

From my observations...if you are starting from a dead stop and are in Eco and you punch the pedal, you will get what seems like great acceleration...but if you are rolling up a highway entrance ramp, going maybe 30 mph, and you punch it in eco, you feel like a slug. In this situation, the normal Drive mode seems to perform better.

The "feeling" that you get in various situations is colored by the surroundings and our brain. Would be good to know for sure.

fjpod said:

From my observations...if you are starting from a dead stop and are in Eco and you punch the pedal, you will get what seems like great acceleration...but if you are rolling up a highway entrance ramp, going maybe 30 mph, and you punch it in eco, you feel like a slug. In this situation, the normal Drive mode seems to perform better.

The "feeling" that you get in various situations is colored by the surroundings and our brain. Would be good to know for sure.

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I tried it again this morning - That pretty well reflects what I feel - 'Normal' (or near) acceleration from a standing stop, somewhat less brisk picking up from 20 or 30 than I'm used to

Maybe . . . . the figures published by Plug-in Cars are for an early version of the car, spec'ed like the Japanese version and they later figured out that would not go over big in the USA market, so they relented and gave us some extra punch??

Most of the evaluations by reviewers do say that the D and B modes are 'full power' modes, as compared to the Eco mode - If the Eco mode isn't computer limited, then what good is it? It certainly has less regen than the B mode

Anyway, the performance this morning was certainly much better than I recall from trying it the first week we had the car - I hadn't tried it again since. I'm still a B mode guy . . . . I like the engine braking as I always downshifted my other cars rather than using the brakes and that method makes even more sense now since it extends my range as well as saving my brakes

Don

Don said:

fjpod said:

From my observations...if you are starting from a dead stop and are in Eco and you punch the pedal, you will get what seems like great acceleration...but if you are rolling up a highway entrance ramp, going maybe 30 mph, and you punch it in eco, you feel like a slug. In this situation, the normal Drive mode seems to perform better.

The "feeling" that you get in various situations is colored by the surroundings and our brain. Would be good to know for sure.

Click to expand...

I tried it again this morning - That pretty well reflects what I feel - 'Normal' (or near) acceleration from a standing stop, somewhat less brisk picking up from 20 or 30 than I'm used to

Maybe . . . . the figures published by Plug-in Cars are for an early version of the car, spec'ed like the Japanese version and they later figured out that would not go over big in the USA market, so they relented and gave us some extra punch??

Most of the evaluations by reviewers do say that the D and B modes are 'full power' modes, as compared to the Eco mode - If the Eco mode isn't computer limited, then what good is it? It certainly has less regen than the B mode

Anyway, the performance this morning was certainly much better than I recall from trying it the first week we had the car - I hadn't tried it again since. I'm still a B mode guy . . . . I like the engine braking as I always downshifted my other cars rather than using the brakes and that method makes even more sense now since it extends my range as well as saving my brakes

Don

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I would like to comment on just one thing you said...B gives more regen than D or Eco...
B gives more regen per unit of time than the others, but if one could coast to a stop for an unlimited distance, I suspect the amount of regen would be the same. B just gives it to you faster over a shorter distance, and using the brakes without engaging the friction brakes gives it to you even faster. Energy can neither be created nor destroyed. So whether you use braking (within reason), B, D, or Eco, you get the same regen, just over different amounts of time.

On Prius forums, some suggest that long coasting is better than short, which would imply that coasting in D, assuming you have the roadway in front of you, would be better.

I also get full power eco when flooring it, regardless of current speed.

Don said:

...If the Eco mode isn't computer limited, then what good is it? It certainly has less regen than the B mode

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Eco alters the man-machine interface to physically change both the pressure and gain of the go-pedal to induce a restraining influence on the driver. This is good, IMO, as it does foster conservative (economical) driving. Nevertheless, the design is such that full power is indeed still available as one pushes way down on the go-pedal.

Yes, we can do the same thing by sensitively driving in B.

Using Eco, I also like the slightly increased regeneration that's halfway between D and B.

Since we don't have a paddle or joystick to control regen and once you're used to it (I have a joystick to do just that in my MIMA-modified Gen1 Insight and love it) lifting the foot to modulate regen using the brake pedal is much more trouble than using your fingers or even one's hand on the shift lever.

fjpod said:

I would like to comment on just one thing you said...B gives more regen than D or Eco...B gives more regen per unit of time than the others, but if one could coast to a stop for an unlimited distance, I suspect the amount of regen would be the same. B just gives it to you faster over a shorter distance, and using the brakes without engaging the friction brakes gives it to you even faster. Energy can neither be created nor destroyed. So whether you use braking (within reason), B, D, or Eco, you get the same regen, just over different amounts of time.

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I agree with that, assuming of course you can touch the brakes enough to kick it in without getting any friction braking . . . . the B mode is just way more practical because in the course of normal driving you don't have enough time or distance to slow without using the friction brakes . . . . unless you're lagging behind the car in front of you by a hundred feet or so - Not very practical

I would like to explore the difference in regen between the B mode and the B mode with your foot on the brake just enough to light the tail lights - I *assume* (bad thing to do I know) that the brakelight switch kicks in max regen, which is supposed to be some amount even greater than just B mode. If so, I'd like some way to engage that without having to put my foot on the brake pedal because I'm modulating the pedal with my right foot to control how fast I'm slowing so I really don't like messing with the brake pedal until I actually need to stop

Don

I tested the eco mode today regarding flooring the accelerator pedal and it does indeed respond with full power like in D mode.

Don said:

I would like to explore the difference in regen between the B mode and the B mode with your foot on the brake just enough to light the tail lights - I *assume* (bad thing to do I know) that the brakelight switch kicks in max regen, which is supposed to be some amount even greater than just B mode. If so, I'd like some way to engage that without having to put my foot on the brake pedal because I'm modulating the pedal with my right foot to control how fast I'm slowing so I really don't like messing with the brake pedal until I actually need to stop

Don

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The brake pedal actually has 2 steps of extra regen in each driving mode giving us a total of 9 regen levels.

The full power in eco mode is probably a safety deal to allow you to get out of trouble if need be.