Mitsubishi Imiev Electric Vehicle Forum

The June issue of the Electric Automobile Association publication Current EVents has an interesting article comparing the cost of ownership of EVs versus ICEs. The i was compared in Current EVents against the Yaris and the Mini Cooper. Over 10 years of ownership the i is cheaper to operate by $13,485 and $17,314 respectively. They even had some comparisons on leasing an EV versus leasing an ICE. Again positive results. Here is a link to the entire article at Plug In America:

http://www.pluginamerica.org/drivers-se ... nexpensive

It was nice to see a positive article on EV ownership

I'm guessing they're counting on the original battery lasting the full ten years and not considering the cost of replacing it? I'm not quite that optomistic . . . . wish I was tho

Don

EV cars will save over $17,000 on fuel and maintenance costs for every 100,000 miles driven.

That is using today's* gasoline prices and regular maintenance costs at the dealer for a typical car sold in the USA -- that gets 22.5MPG. Maintenance is about 25% of that -- basic services every 5K, intermediate service every 15K and full service every 45K miles.

Do the math for 100K miles: fuel costs are average MPG (~22.5 in the USA?). So, 100,000 / 22.4 = 4,444 gallons X $3.729 = $16,573

The maintenance I went with typical dealer costs for basic maintenance every 5K miles, intermediate every 15K, and full maintenance every 30K. The numbers I used was $75 for basic, $200 for intermediate, and $500 for full.

That means there are 14 basic X $75 = $1,050
3 intermediate X $200 = $600
3 full X $500 = $1,500
Total for maintenance = $3,150

So, the cost of maintenance is a bit less than 20% roughly speaking, at today's gasoline prices.

Total cost to run an ICE car for 100K miles = $19,723.

Remember as well that the oil and other waste materials add to the carbon footprint of driving an ICE; as does the increasingly difficult to find oil to make gasoline.

Cost to run a Leaf the same 100K miles, using the EPA average of 340Wh/mile and off-peak charging around here of 8¢/kWh: 100,000 X 340 /1,000 = 34,000kWh X $0.08 = $2,720.

Cost to run a Fit EV the same 100K miles, using the EPA average of 290Wh/mile and off-peak charging around here of 8¢/kWh: 100,000 X 290 /1,000 = 29,000kWh X $0.08 = $2,320; or $400 less than the Leaf.

The Mitsubishi i MiEV is slightly more to run than the Fit EV, but slightly less than the Leaf.

Since there is virtually $0 for maintenance on an EV that you don't also have for an ICE, that means you save $17,003, which is much more than the cost of the Leaf battery *now*; let alone 8-12 years in the future.

This means the Leaf actually costs you $35,200 to $37,250 - $7,500 = $27,700 to $29,750 - $17,003 = $10,697 to $12,747 for the first 100K miles! Drive it for another 100K miles, and you come out "ahead".

Sign up for $0 down solar PV panels to be installed on your house, and you pay about HALF of what you do now for electricity AND save that $2,720 as well.

Source: Clean Technica (http://s.tt/1dBke) I was the author of this comment on that post.

I think that a majority of the cells will last 200K miles and so the cost to replace them will be more than paid for in the savings. In fact, driving an EV is "free" when compared to the average gasoline car; if you drive it long enough.

Those are certainly great numbers, Neil - But they count on a pretty rosy scenario . . . . that everything on the EV will do 100K without anything major going wrong or any expensive parts needing to be replaced

My high tech, front loading washing machine saves me more than $75 per year because it uses much less hot water than our old top loader and that should mean that it will literally pay for itself in 15 years or so . . . . except that the $125 service call to replace the $284 motherboard in it only 5 or 6 months after the warranty expired really put a dent in my 'savings' - I'm now just praying that it lasts long enough for me to break even

I don't know of any EV which comes with a 100% warranty which lasts ten years

I also don't figure that the cost of the electricity to recharge it is all of the 'fuel costs' - Every mile I drive is one less mile that the battery has left in it and at some point, it's going to have to be replaced. When that happens, I can add the cost of all the electricity I used to recharge it to the cost of the battery replacement, divide that by the miles driven and I'll have a much better number on my actual 'fuel cost' - I don't think it's going to be just 3 or 4 cents per mile

I'm certainly not 'anti-EV' (I bought one after all) but if I look back ten years from now and I feel I've broken even on the costs vs the 30 mpg ICE that it replaced, I'll be really happy. Since I paid a good bit more for it than the ICE, without $5 gas at some point, I personally believe that may be hard to do and if I don't break even I still won't be terribly disappointed - I love the car and the concept and even if it doesn't turn out to be cheaper in the long run, I'll be happy . . . . so long as I don't have to buy some really expensive part a few miles after the warranty expires

Don

HI Don,
good points, I too am not sure how things will go with the iMIiEV here re spare parts etc, so I asked the dealer for a price list for replacement aircon compressor, alloy wheels, windscreen etc. All came back with good pricing and availability which is good as for a hire out car, time waiting for parts is money not coming in for car paying off.

I noted the comment re the front loader washing machine and it is a good comparision to the imiev, if a bearing goes in the washing machine, you can hear it going and plan for replacement, but a motherboard tends to stop without much warning , perhaps the odd malfunction.

The imiev circuits could be the same.

In NZ, the consumer law helps, in that for a private person buying, the Car must last a reasonable period of time, as does a washer machine also need to.

For instance, if the car or washer broke down 7 months after the warranty expired, and the car or washer was otherwise in good order, then the vehicle or washer is covered and must be fixed by the dealer even though the warranty is finished.

For example, it does depend on what is considered standard. A washing machine might have a two year warranty but one would expect a five year no problems life with maybe a ten year with repairs expected.

The machine breaks after say three years, then after the two year warranty, the consumers law says it is to be fixed still by the dealer.

I would expect that the imiev would if sold here, have the same provisions, so if the BMS broke or a motor broke after after the warranty but within the expected trouble free life of the car, then it would be covered still.
I think it does need common sense though, I don't think it covers everything, but what one would reasonably expect to be covered usually is. We had a recall for our Hiluxes for a steering arm possible fault and that was way after the warranty finished, and for our holden, the seat controls bracket keep breaking and as a known fault they replaced them even after the warranty.

Hope that helps NZ buyers considering an iMiEV.Though as always, consult your free, community, law office first.


Here in NZ for the iMiEV, we have free serviceing for the first three years too ! Tyres and fluids not counted, mainly only labour free. I have allowed $ 2, 500 per year for tyres and replacement parts in my budgeting, though I am expecting less as I am hoping only tyres to wear out if used for say postal delivery. The U turns tend to scrub out tyres on the front on our other cars.

I think the iMiEV is cool, and if it only had another 20 % battery capacity for a confirmed 120 Km at 100 Km hr it would be great.

Oh, and a price of $ 37, 000 NZ would help the payback in fuel saving too..

There are similar costs of wear and tear on ICE cars, too. The electric motor in any EV will last nearly a million miles, in all likelihood, but how far will an ICE go before requiring a rebuild?

If you drive 25K miles a year, then you will easily save more than the total cost of the whole car; let alone some or all of the battery cells.

Gasoline costs will go up, and it will get dirtier and dirtier over time. With electricity, we should be seeing cleaner and cleaner power, and the costs may even come down over time.

Thank you for sharing this article. It shows a lot of comparisons and is pretty clear about the assumptions (the "blah-blah-blahs") made. The first assumption is that you are intending to buy a new vehicle, with an admission that driving an old ICE, cycling, or taking public transport all have lower TCO. Also, the author notes that in some cases, the Ford Focus EV, there may not be any savings over a 10 year period as compared to a similar new gas vehicle.

One assumption I didn't see is that due to charging time and limited range, an EV may not be capable of driving 15,000 miles in a year. For the i, it means driving every day more than 40 miles a day, certainly possible, but I believe it's a bit harder to do in an EV than in a gasoline car where you can rack up long trips that make driving 15k/year much easier. I think our city driving in the i will be more like 8,000 miles/year. Maybe. My old EV I drove only about 4,000 miles in a year. FIXED costs kill EVs, whereas running costs kill an ICE. If the fixed costs on an EV can go down, we'll have a a real ICE killer.

I'm not sure if I've shared this before, but even if I did, this looks like a good place to re-reference this article and spreadsheet:

http://www.squidoo.com/a-free-calculator-for-economy-hybrid-and-electric-cars

The spreadsheet is very useful and if you know how to use excel can be modified as you like. The spreadsheet compares total cost of the Leaf, Volt, Prius and three gas cars. It assumes the Leaf gives 100 miles of range per day and that the volt gives 40 miles of range before the gas engine kicks in. I have my own modified spreadsheet to compare the MiEV as well. There's a lot of educated-guessing involved in a process like this - especially with significant unknowns like resale value. But even if you're conservative in your numbers, the electric cars do very well, and the MiEV, with its low purchase price, does the best of all the electrics. The formula for the "total cost of ownership" for the Leaf is interesting because it has a multiplier to take into consideration the cost of maintaining a gas car along with the Leaf. Yet the Leaf still came out ahead.