Upgrading the heating system to bioethanol or Diesel fuel

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Yes that would be the average but it did include 8km at 85 kmph (5 miles at 53 mph ) & city stop and starting.
I estimate there is approximately a 30-35% advantage over the OE Heater
 
My Russian ethanol heater had blown it's glow plug, but I just replaced it and it's just so nice to have actual heat again. The ethanol heater heats the liquid around 75˚C while the electric heater only gets to about 55˚C. That's a 20˚C difference, which makes a huge impact on winter driving. Not to mention that the electric heater easily consumes a third of the usable pack capacity, whereas the ethanol heater just burns less a than a liter per hour using minimal amount of electricity. My tiny 20 Ah LiFePO4 battery has also been more than sufficient and I haven't had any problems with it. It's still located in the trunk.
 
Is the 12V power strong enough for this:
http://www.biltema.dk/da/Bil---MC/Bil-tilbehor/Vinterbil/Kabinevarmer/Kabinevarmer-12-V-40420/
 
The car's 12 volt system could easily power that, but not through the power port in the dash. That's limited to 8 amps, or 96 watts. This heater uses 200 watts, or more than 16 amps. If it doesn't blow the fuse, you'll melt something for sure.

Even still, 200 watts of heat isn't much.
 
PV1 said:
Even still, 200 watts of heat isn't much.
Especially when compared to the little 120 volt utility heaters which are typically 1500 watts . . . . and even 1500 watts isn't much trying to heat something as poorly insulated as a car on a 20 degree day

Don
 
Well here is a little update on my experience with the diesel heater (dh) in the imiev. I'll give more of a qualitative evaluation rather then look at the numbers. Maybe I will post some canion numbers a little later on.

By the way, Anyone with canion can see how much they are spending on heat. Its pretty easy to convert those heat WH into miles or kms. You could decide if a fuel heater is worth it for you.

First of all the heater is either a fantastic range extender or a useless 4 kg weight in the car it depends on your use of heat in an ev.

If your one of those people who can drive with no heat and it doesn't really bother you then the heater is useless and does not extend range. This may be obvious but its worth mentioning because there are people who are content to drive with no heat in the ev for whatever reasons.

If you drive your ev with "survival" amounts of heat only to defrost windows for example then the dh starts to make a little sense.

If you drive using as much heat as you can for comfort but still making it to you destination then the heater becomes a good range extender.

If you like your car warm and you need or want as much range as possible for peace of mind or you just need it to make you destination then the heater is indispensable.

Basically the desire for comfort in the car for the driver and passengers is the real driver for this kind of extra heater.

Once you have it You definitely get used to having the heat and soon become dependant on it and then you wonder how you ever did without it.....

In very cold temps of < -20 deg c the heater really pulls its weight and you see the greatest range increase and greatest comfort increase.

The dh also give you have a lot more confidence that you can make your destination. You can basically do more with the car in these bitter temps Without getting frostbite....:)

It is pretty much a linear relationship of temp vs range extension up to about say + 5 deg c where you don't really need the dh the electric heat is fine unless you are really pushing the limits of the car's range. At + 5 deg C its much easier to run the car with no heat and have the same result dh installed or not. Actually when the temps are up i just use the stock heater most of the time. I also use the stock electric heater in very cold temps when I am just doing a very short drive.

I don't have any numbers but the fuel heater is hotter then the electric one. Its kind of like the turbo button on the old pc's. But it is slower to get going. It takes 4-5 minutes to get heat when its really cold. The stock heat is more like 1 minute to warm up.

So overall for my neck of the woods it's a great idea.

Two things are problematic in my implementation:

My 1.8 liter fuel tank needs to be filled a lot when it gets really cold. More then I thought I would need to fill it. Like i said you get used to the heat. I should figure out a larger tank, 10 liters with a gauge would be nice.

Second with the heater in the front of the car in stop and go traffic and with the fan on max some of the exhaust seems to get sucked into the car not much but you can detect it. Its fine as long as the car is rolling but at a stop light I have to lower the fan to half or less. I need to run the exhaust more to the side and away from the car. That will be my next project when it gets a little warmer.

Also on the down side you do need to fiddle with starting the heater and setting a runtime and then setting the normal heat controls to heat for a second to direct air thru the heating core and then back to the green dot to stop using electric heat. Not really a problem for me but still a few manual things to keep track of. The whole system is not very automatic at all. Not aproblem for me but for some a completely automatic system with the dh kicking in when it gets really cold or the battery is at 50 %would probably be nice for some people.

Another thing, The heater does make noise. In the cabin when your rolling with music on low you can hear the fuel pump and the exhaust blower but its not loud enough to bother you.
Outside of the car you hear it much more its like and enhanced AVAS (did i get that right ) maybe a great safety feature in the winter. Some people may not like the extra noise but to tell the truth at -20 deg c all the windows are closed and you could care less about sound. Your completely isolated from the outside when your in the car.

For me its been a progression of one winter with only L1 charging to a second winter with L2 to a third with a diesel heater. Each winter so much easier then the previous one in terms of heat and comfort in the car.

Of course my wife and kids are much happier in the car in the winter with the heater. The imiev is no longer known as the car you freeze in.

So of course its no surprise that I would recommend this mod to anyone who experiences these really low temps and would prefer to be in a warm ev rather then a freezing one. I guess if it was a factory option then everyone in the north would take it. I think the first winter is a little bit of a rude awakening for new ev buyers. A dh option on the car could eliminate that.

Now that being said if you have no need to ever do more then 50 km in the winter then the stock heater is fine. Its clean, easy to use and never needs to be filled up.

Don.....
 
Don,
Thank you for very nice write up. I am endorsing it 100%.

For in-factory implementation, I would recommend Mitsubishi to adjust the dh software to provide:
1) driver controlled temperature
2) implement (auto) adjustable power with much lower minimum, somewhere around 500W,
3) eliminate the lengthy system check at the beginning to provide faster heat onset,
4) use the heat for (automatic) battery heating
5) work hard to decrease the noise and
6) eliminate/decrease the smelly fumes during start and stop sequence.

I thing one of the hurdles is the regulatory. There is an obvious need to re-implement a fuel tank in EV, which brings a safety controls with it.

Mitsubishi must also improve roof and foot well insulation (just like Nissan did with Leaf).

Stan
 
Great write up Don
&
Recommendations jaraczs

Most Important for me are
Winter Range extending.
Fully defrosted windshield and windows for saftey,
Warm feet
Full passenger cabin comfort not just the front 2 seats.

How did I do 2 winters with out it?
 
A short update on some cold weather driving done recently.

last weekend was very cold in the Montreal area. In fact we have been in a cold snap with lows of -24 deg c at night and highs of -10 to -15 during the day.

Last weekend I did 240 km (150 miles) in these temps. About half of the was done in the evening. I did do 4 hours of L1 8 amp and 3 hours of L2 opportunity charging away from home. It was the highest amount of mileage I have done in such cold weather. This was all running around in the area and spread out over the 2 days. I managed to turtle the car on sat and sunday. Very uncomfortable to see the turtle but i was glad to have canion so i could look at the percent left as we dug into the turtle. I brought the car down to 5 % on saturday and 6 % on sunday in order to get home.

This was all done with the diesel heater and no electric heat. I was pretty impressed with the distance that can be accomplished considering the road conditions and the extreme cold. Although I didn't like bringing the car down to the turtle, It was not part of the plan but I'm glad I had that extra 10 % to make it back. Of course this was with no sacrifice of comfort in the cabin.

I could not have done these type of distances without the diesel heater in these temps.

Don.....
 
DonDakin said:
I managed to turtle the car on sat and sunday. Very uncomfortable to see the turtle but i was glad to have canion so i could look at the percent left as we dug into the turtle. I brought the car down to 5 % on saturday and 6 % on sunday in order to get home.
Did you look at the voltage on your battery cells on Canion at 5% and 6%? I have been meaning to look at the cell voltages on my MiEV with 40,000 miles the next time my charge was low to see how close they were, and if any cells were lower than the rest.

DonDakin said:
In fact we have been in a cold snap with lows of -24 deg c at night and highs of -10 to -15 during the day.
What were the battery cell temperatures during your trip? Did you try to keep your battery warmer to increase your range?
 
Hi robert,

At 6 % soc battery temp avg was 7.1 deg peak 11 lowest 0 with the peaks on cells 17 and 50,55 the classic double bump temp readings lowest are 31 and 66.

Voltage followed the same pettern exactly peaks of 3.62 and lows of 3.585 my cells are probably out of balance somewhat but overall pretty good. I did not heat the battery but i was driving on the highway at about 80 km/h. I do keep the car in the garage when charging so the battery temp climbs while its in the garage.


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Don....
 
Wow Don - you sure pushed it to the limits .
I would be too afraid of waiting for a tow truck in these temperature without heat.

Since you pushed it until you hit the turtle,
Did you have a chance to record how many km/miles you were able to squeeze out from a full charge in those temperatures?
Was that at 80 kmph?
 
Hi Sandy,

I drove from my place to st bruno round trip. It was 100 km exactly. It was -16 deg C and I stayed there 3.5 hours charging L1 8 amps with the oem charger. On the return the wind was howling right in our face. From the junction of the 15 and the 40 I stayed on the service road at about 50km/hour to make it home with 7% left. Turtling was not part of the plan but i think the winds from the west did us in. We were 3 in the car also.

So 100 km total in pretty bad conditions with 3.5 hours of L1 about 83 % highway the rest on the service road. This is round trip so elevation changes are zeroed out. I had the charger in the car and canion was giving me accurate soc. I started to worry when i was 20 km from home. So I got off the highway, stayed on the service road and kept scanning the rr and the gps distance to home. The last 20 km I drove slow.

It must have been rough in terms of temps for you up there in the mountains this past week.

Don.....
 
To us temperate-climate Californians, your weather, and especially the entire NorthEast US blizzards in these last few weeks, leaves me shaking my head. OTOH, maybe instead of the Keystone pipeline we should have a water pipeline heading in our direction...

What a great example showing off the utility of the heating system mod. DonDakin, thanks for the writeup and for posting the CaniOn photos. A 40km/hr headwind (for example) when you're going 50km/hr is the range-killer, not to mention greatly increased rolling resistance in any snow or slush.

Congratulations for surviving turtle (which I have yet to see…)
 
Those winds were a big factor. We usually experience 3 - 5 C degrees cooler her in the mountains.
You did pretty well with 3 in the car and the speeds you were driving.
This little car keeps on surprising us.
 
Thanks, Don, for sharing the success story.
For all, in regards of the turtle, you would take the chance in Summer because in case you have to call for the tow, you do not have to freeze as you wait. In the Winter, you do not want to take the chance UNLESS you have the combustion heater, which keeps you warm and allows you to stay focused on managing your driving style to conserve the (electrical) energy and to ultimately complete your travel mission. In case you do not make it, you won't freeze because the heater will keep working (as long as you have enough 12V capacity).
In these freezing temperatures, I would also recommend to share the heat from the combustion heater with the main traction battery. It is essential to heat the battery early on to get the most of the benefit and perhaps even before you depart. It may not be necessary during the travel as the battery cools down rather slowly.
Stan
 
DonDakin said:
I do keep the car in the garage when charging so the battery temp climbs while its in the garage.
Hi Don,
It has been especially cold in New Jersey lately, and I recently took some battery temperature readings using Canion. I also keep my car in the garage, and the garage stays above freezing even when the outside temperature is well below freezing. What I have found is that discharging the cars battery (running the car) will increase the temperature of the cars battery even when the outside temperature is much colder. I started out and my battery was just a little warmer than the ambient temperature in my garage (a couple of degrees above freezing). Even though the outside temperature was a little over 0º F, the battery cell temperatures continued to rise a few degrees as I was driving.
 
I've seen that, too. If you want to heat the battery, get on the highway or pull some big hills, then hit the charger. I managed to get my battery to 70 F with 10 F ambient temperatures by 10 miles of 50 mph main roads, 20 miles of 65 MPH highway, followed by 3-4 hours of level 2, then the same on the way home. Motor coolant temp was also in the 80's after getting off the highway.

Regarding using the fuel heater for heating the battery, heat the battery early on, then let the nature of our cells carry on from there, keeping themselves warm. If you're somewhere secure, dump heat into the pack while charging.
 
Don's adventure with a zero degree Celsius cell still holding over 3.5V at 6% SOC just gives me more confidence in Mitsubishi's pack management. According to the mfr specs, 3.5V at zero degrees should be only about a 40 amp-hr discharge, and is still high on the knee (ie- hasn't yet fallen off the cliff)!
https://www.gs-yuasa.com/jp/technic/vol5/pdf/05_1_021.pdf
 
I have a question that I thought someone here might have an answer to.

Has anyone successfully installed or heard of some one who installed a diesel liquid heater
in a Leaf or Kia Soul,
or any other EV for that matter?
 
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