PREPARATION FOR COLD SEASONS

2 winters here in Canada with our first Miev 2012
Last year was a really tough one with
multiple days of -30 C ( -22F) :shock:

We tried the heater and pipes insulation
tried a propane camping heater
added passenger electric seat heat
battery electric socks
electric 12v car blanket

Not enough heat for us.
Tired of scraping the windows on the inside.

With our 2014 Miev we are investing our time and money in the diesel heater.

This should significantly improve our comfort and driving range in the winter months.

RobbW, welcome back! You've gone through one of the worst/longest winters with your i-MiEV - it'll only get better for you, maybe (Climate Change, and all that...)

I'm dumbfounded that you still haven't been able to wrangle a charging spot while at work.

Good that you're now thinking about preparations for Winter - sorry, I can't contribute, as not only it isn't cold here, but we have a real shortage of rain as well...

If you've read my LED mod thread, you'll know that I also put insulation in the doors. I recently finished the front doors, and what a difference it makes.

I had my first snowflake this morning (the icon on the dash), and used the preheater for the first time this fall. The car was pretty warm starting out and stayed decently warm on the way to work, even with cool air coming in through the defroster. Not only a thermal improvement, the insulation stopped the rattle in my doors and made the radio sound much better. If you have the rattle problem, it's the plastic sheeting in the doors that causes this.

A newbie here with an i-miev, there are volumes of knowledge to learn. After spending the whole evening reading through just this topic it really does feel that way..

This is what I've gathered that I can do to keep warm (or cool) that the family agrees fits within our values...
For winters reaching here 0 degrees F a couple days
low hanging fruit
a. use whisk brush to brush off snow from shoes - bring in dry out removable floor carpet = reduce fogging, ice build up (yes dear)
b. capitalize on pre-heating ....
c. either make some thick merino wool mittens or buy goose down ones (I wonder about a wool steering wheel wrap)
d. electric sock warmers would be especially useful for longer trips now!
e. wool seat cushion with wool fill for front and rear passengers. (knitted/felted in colors/design to complement car's interior)
f. alpaca or merino lap blankets

intermediate hanging fruit
a. also water repellent glass coating...
b. solar shades (block solar gain in summer) for all windows.
c. consider - energy efficient film...
d. carry LavaBuns for passengers (may experiment with vacuum cooker to see if I can maintain Buns heat when not needed up to 24 hrs)


Fruit requiring new knowledge/skills
A. **by next winter a heated mat under the carpeting driver/front passenger- which could reduce the need for foot warmers..
B. combine this with insulating the doors, roof and tailgate which will benefit both heating and cooling and seems to be fundamentally important and Mitsu at minimum should do/offer.
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***Pondering what it might take to connect the heated mat into the 12 volt outlet socket...

All of what is thought about might be completely naive, but I'm hoping its roughly useful. I need to try it and see...

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It was a revelation to me to realize my understanding of warmth is based on my understanding of the usefulness of combustion and its ubiquitousness everywhere in our society and as my expectation of what it is to be civilized. A good overview of human history and civilized achievements from a different perspective than mine can easily be found elsewhere. Suffice to say combustion is useful, but there may be other valid ways, even more efficient ways to be comfortably warm and use minimal energy.

It has been suggested that insulation allows us to heat the car more efficiently, which seems like the first level of importance when you don't have tons of combustion heat that is going to waste. The examples our heated seat and the rear window defroster are also examples of minimal energy use. The discussion of the heated floor mat also is consistent with minimal energy demand. All these reflect a paradigm of more directly heating the object that needs to be heated more concisely.

On several websites there are growing discussions about not wasting home heating energy where we heat the air where people are not. Instead we should heat the people. A youtube example that illustrates a heating strategy that might be useful for us... Search on youtube: 87% off electric heat bill: REALLY saving energy. Now this won't work everywhere, but for us using an electric vehicle, like the i-miev, this might be useful. As the video illustrates, when people are actually toasty warm, the air need not be as warm.

What do you do with frost on the windows! Under the present circumstance we need to use the defrost, but less than would be needed if we weren't relying on it as the sole source of heat. Also, if we have brought in the car boots packed with snow, their melting will increase the need, beyond human respiration for defogging. If there is little extra moisture in the car, even the defroster set to no heating and low fan may be all that is needed to keep the windows clear, once the frost has been melted.

In my perfect world, once I am warm, if I wanted to save more energy I would investigate what it might take to wire in an electric front window defroster. This would use a fraction of the energy running warm air would consume from the batteries...
I am writing at 2am and need to get up a few hours to start my day..so I'll stop rambling

(I'll post now and come back later to make this more sensible...)

BarryP from Idaho Falls has posted an excellent summary of his cold-weather clothing and use of the i-MiEV controls in this post:

http://myimiev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=20603#p20603

Good advice. Thanks..

JoeS said:

BarryP from Idaho Falls has posted an excellent summary of his cold-weather clothing and use of the i-MiEV controls in this post:

http://myimiev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=20603#p20603

Click to expand...

I've just finished insulating the rear doors of my 2010 i using "X-trem" 10mm thick adhesive foam. The foam is weather resistent and does not take on water. I've found these at a motorhome shop, they normally use those for insulating home built RV's. The panels were 100x200cm and 26,50 euro a piece, not too bad. Plus, they are really light too, which is a bonus.

What I did was make a cutout of cardboard on the inside door panel, I then made the correct holes in it for a cable hole, a slit for the door cables, a hole for the door grip and the door handle cup. The 10mm easily fits between the door and the inside panel, except for the part around the door handle cup, i've left a square out there.

After checking with the cardboard mockup for fit I went ahead and cutout the adhesive foam sheet into a left and right version by flipping the cardboard over. I had to make relatively large-ish holes for the rear speakers which I fitted around the 3D printed speaking ring I designed and printed. Still needs a foam curtain around the speaker outline that connects to the inside door panel to stop that gap.
http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1159586 There's a 5mm gap between the speaker outline and the door panel. I still have some basic weather sealing foam adhesive strip I can use for this.

It's already december here, but still a mild 10 degrees C, uncommon for the season. So far the heater has proved to be adequate for my drive, it's just 35km single drive and a charger at work. So unless the winter really sets in I'll leave the diesel heater for a different time. Insulating the front doors and the heater pipes are still on the board for this year as the weather lasts.

Getting to the coolant pipes might prove a bit difficult, seems quite cramped in the front. The diameter of the coolant pipes is 22mm, so I might just buy the foam version from the hardware store and use that and tape it off to stay put.

I also saw the sock around the coolant tank, but I'm currently baffled as to how that was fitted around it, was the coolant drained for this procedure? I've tried the adhesive foam, but the tank is just too slippery. Might need to prime it with a plastic spray primer, that would require removing and draining regardless. I'll have to gather courage for that.

databeestje said:

I also saw the sock around the coolant tank, but I'm currently baffled as to how that was fitted around it, was the coolant drained for this procedure?

Click to expand...

How about a needle and thread and scissors?

Well, I ended up cutting pieces to size for the fluid container which becomes a nice shroud that fits over the tank. I've left the instructions and sizes for that with pictures in another post somewhere here on the forum.

As others mention, it doesn't make much of a difference by itself, the pipe from the PTC heater goes straight into the car with just about a foot (30 cm) of rubber tube.

I've just finished insulating the rubber hoses with 22mm foams, quite a chore, the bottom protection plate for the power steering was pretty easy to remove, just 4 push pins. I also had to loosen de left front wheel arch inside cover which is put in place with about 10 or so of screw push pins, a bit more finicky as that is not easily removed. I just wedged it out of the way so I could get to the rubber hoses next to the fuel pump.

You can loosen the heater fluid tank by unbolting the brace from the car, the 2nd top bolt is unfortunately hidden behind the plastic windshield wiper guard. Just pop the push pins from that plastic strip (you can leave the one under the wiper) and you should be able to pick a #10 socket with extension under there for the bolt. Also, who had the bright idea to put the fuse box behind the heater fluid, it's neigh impossible to reach.

So what's left is removing the under tray that protects the heater. Unfortunately the 2 jacks we had didn't give enough clearance to work comfortably that far down the car so I left that for a later time where it's a bit easier reached.

I've also put a piece of 3mm thick foam with reflective foil side under the drivers side floor mat. Remove the door sill startin from the front and then working to the rear, the rear has 2 hooks for behind. Remove the small plastic flat head bolt from the front door arch plastic cover, just keep turning left without pushing, it'll come off. Gently pull off the cover.

I left the right side of the floor mat in place, I've found that adequate, stuck some thing double sided carpet tape on the floor (vacuum first) and then proceeded to wrestle the insulation into place. Mitsibishi wasn't entirely stupid, the left foot rest is a styrofoam block, so that's some basic insulation right there

When the foam is in place and rolled out to under the pedals, up against the steering column, you can wrestle the floor mat back into place and cut of the remaining insulation sticking out.

The seat heater from ebay is on order from China, and I'll be putting one of them under the floor mat to heat my feet, it's supposedly 30Watts per sheet, and I got the adjustable model with 5 settings to find out what works best. It seemed like a good idea to put reflective foam in place for this purpose.

I found this report on the Imiev done in Manitoba. I think it's a good and fair report and deals with the range questions in the four seasons pretty well.

http://blogs.rrc.ca/ar/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/iMiEV-2nd-year-report-final.pdf


Admins: Please move this post to reference material if you think it's worth it.

Don......

DonDakin said:

I found this report on the Imiev done in Manitoba. I think it's a good and fair report and deals with the range questions in the four seasons pretty well.

http://blogs.rrc.ca/ar/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/iMiEV-2nd-year-report-final.pdf

Click to expand...

That report was the main reason I went ahead and purchased my Eve; it was reassuring to hear that this mostly positive research was done right where I live.

I am now in the middle of the second winter with Eve, who is totally and completely un-modded. I live in an apartment, the only parking option is outdoors, and can only plug it in to the standard 120V block heater plugs, and it can get to -33 degrees celsius frequently. In other words, my scenario is as undesirable as it gets when dealing with cold temperatures, and I am so happy to report that I have never had one single bad thing happen. It always starts, it always goes where it needs to go, the interior does frost up too easily but 5 minutes of defrosting air at full blast and we're good to go.

While I can see the benefits of adding insulation, heaters, etc, please believe me that it is not strictly necessary!

DonDakin said:

I found this report on the Imiev done in Manitoba. I think it's a good and fair report and deals with the range questions in the four seasons pretty well.
http://blogs.rrc.ca/ar/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/iMiEV-2nd-year-report-final.pdf
Admins: Please move this post to reference material if you think it's worth it.
Don......

Click to expand...

DonDakin, thank you. We'll get it posted as reference.

After putting a extra piece on insulation under the floor mat on the drivers side, I've added a bit under the passenger side floor mat too.

Turns out that the passenger floor mat has 2cm thick foam block insulation under the carpet and it is also molded around the vent ducts that go toward the passenger seat side to cool the battery pack with the AC. After applying a small amount of lift under the ducts I could get the relatively thin insulation under the duct and the carpet.

Since the foam blocks are glued to the carpet it is not possible to get the carpet out easily, but it's easy enough to slide it under regardless.

This means that my seat heater can go under the carpet on the drivers side, but can only go under the loose floor mat of the passenger side. Oh well, could have been worse.

Good to know !

I modified regular 120v 1500Wt heater to work from 60v 20Ah e-scooter battery and I am using it when I am along in car. Not bad actually. It helps if temperature outside not so low. Battery from scooter is pretty small, so it's not a problem to take it home and charge every day.
I did same thing for hair fan, but it's too noisy.