rnlcarlov
Posts: 40
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2016 8:30 am

Some trouble with AC on my C-zero

Mon Jul 03, 2017 3:51 am

Last weeked I went on a 350km trip with my c-zero, so I had to stop for some fast-charging on the way.
While the AC was working nicely during the trip, during the quick charge it began to blow less cool air. Once I began driving it again I turned the AC on and barelt any cool air came out. I decided to turn it off for some km and turned it on again. This time some cool air started coming in.

However, the situation repeated itself on the other fast chargers. It started normally enough, but later on the radiator fan on the front would start blowing like crazy (AC consumption on canion would show 2000W), but the air didn't seem to cool that much. I usually observe condensation beneath the car during QC, but not these times. Outside of these quick charges AC seems to work alright if I don't turn it on immediately after.
I took the car to an AC technician, but since it was working normally today he really couldn't do anything. Anyone experienced something simillar?

Don
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Re: Some trouble with AC on my C-zero

Mon Jul 03, 2017 11:39 am

Cabin air filter need cleaning/replacing?

Don
2012 iMiEV SE Premium, White
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sandange
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Re: Some trouble with AC on my C-zero

Tue Jul 04, 2017 3:20 am

Where are you located and what year model do you have?

This could be the early signs of a problem developing or as simple as an intermittent thermostat .
Here in Canada we have multiple reports of AC failures on the 2012 models.
Mostly the reports are of the AC mounting brackets failing that lead to noise and vibration - some report resulting in eventual damage to the wiring to the unit, or complete failure.

I have not investigated or confirm this but
We do live in a harsh climate and our road conditions show it.
One comment was that the AC brackets are the lowest point of contact under the car and the first to hit, possibly causing the initial damage.

When I had my 2014 Miev serviced, I had concerns about the AC units health since my 2012 Miev's AC had failed at around 65,000 km.
I was told by the service technician that the unit had been redesigned
since then and that all was fine,

3 years and I now have over 120,000 km without any problems .
Puey Bluey 2014 Miev
76,400 miles, 123,000 km
Previous EVs
Blackie - 2012 ES Miev 2 years - 67,000 km / (41,630 miles)
Total Electric miles driven
118,000, (190,000 km)

rnlcarlov
Posts: 40
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2016 8:30 am

Re: Some trouble with AC on my C-zero

Wed Jul 05, 2017 6:12 am

Don wrote:Cabin air filter need cleaning/replacing?
Don


That's worth a shot. I don't know if it was ever replaced before I had it and I still haven't changed it/cleaned it.


sandange wrote:Where are you located and what year model do you have?

This could be the early signs of a problem developing or as simple as an intermittent thermostat .
Here in Canada we have multiple reports of AC failures on the 2012 models.
Mostly the reports are of the AC mounting brackets failing that lead to noise and vibration - some report resulting in eventual damage to the wiring to the unit, or complete failure.

I have not investigated or confirm this but
We do live in a harsh climate and our road conditions show it.
One comment was that the AC brackets are the lowest point of contact under the car and the first to hit, possibly causing the initial damage.

When I had my 2014 Miev serviced, I had concerns about the AC units health since my 2012 Miev's AC had failed at around 65,000 km.
I was told by the service technician that the unit had been redesigned
since then and that all was fine,

3 years and I now have over 120,000 km without any problems .


Mine is a 2011 model and I'm in Portugal.
I took a look at the "A/C Issue" topic, and I can't hear the noise that shows up on that video. I can hear the sound of the compressor turning on and I can fell a very slight vibration if the car is at a complete still, but I think it's always been that way for me.
Last year I had an A/C failure due to the fan near the condenser not functioning. I bought the fan motor (around $300) online and got it replaced, and things were going well since then.

phb10186
Posts: 237
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Location: North London suburbs, UK

Re: Some trouble with AC on my C-zero

Wed Jul 05, 2017 7:16 am

so I just fixed the AC unit as it was graunching becasue it had amlost come completely free from the mounting parts and was making a pretty bad racket. Now that's fixed it's all fine.

There are several parts to check:

1. The pollen filter as suggested by Don.
1a. Check all the relevant fuses.
2. Jack the car up at the front, remove the plastic undertray, and directly above it is the AC condenser - check it runs as it should as you turn the AC on and off. Check all the pipes and plugs are connected
3. The fan behind the radiator on normal (rather than MAX) AC has a delay start of 3-5 seconds, check thats working as it should.
4. The internal blower - check that that works with AC off and on, and that the fuse is OK.
5. If 1-4 all turn out good, then I would suggest it could be a problem with the 3-dial climate control unit, lack of refrigerant in the system, or a disconnected or stuck air vent somewhere behind the dash. Of those 3, because you say there is no condensate dripping, would point closer to the gas in the system than anything else. Id say a faulty dial control unit is unlikely (as ive never had a problem like that), and that a stuck air direction flap woull also be unlikely - but where the old cars used cable controls that could break, new cars use a motor to change the direction the air blows... so again unlikely, but it's a possibility further down the list.

If everything there checks out OK, you may have to go to a dealer to diagnose, unless you can access the IMIEV workshop manual software - which I attempted to do and failed at installing.

I am yet to change a bulb or fuse on any Japanese vehicle, so I would assume the fuses would be fine... but you never know.
2012 I-MIEV Keiko Silver 11K
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2001 Accord Type-V (F23 manual)
2009 Hornet CB600F
2008 SH300

rnlcarlov
Posts: 40
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2016 8:30 am

Re: Some trouble with AC on my C-zero

Wed Jul 05, 2017 8:28 am

phb10186 wrote:so I just fixed the AC unit as it was graunching becasue it had amlost come completely free from the mounting parts and was making a pretty bad racket. Now that's fixed it's all fine.

There are several parts to check:

1. The pollen filter as suggested by Don.
1a. Check all the relevant fuses.
2. Jack the car up at the front, remove the plastic undertray, and directly above it is the AC condenser - check it runs as it should as you turn the AC on and off. Check all the pipes and plugs are connected
3. The fan behind the radiator on normal (rather than MAX) AC has a delay start of 3-5 seconds, check thats working as it should.
4. The internal blower - check that that works with AC off and on, and that the fuse is OK.
5. If 1-4 all turn out good, then I would suggest it could be a problem with the 3-dial climate control unit, lack of refrigerant in the system, or a disconnected or stuck air vent somewhere behind the dash. Of those 3, because you say there is no condensate dripping, would point closer to the gas in the system than anything else. Id say a faulty dial control unit is unlikely (as ive never had a problem like that), and that a stuck air direction flap woull also be unlikely - but where the old cars used cable controls that could break, new cars use a motor to change the direction the air blows... so again unlikely, but it's a possibility further down the list.

If everything there checks out OK, you may have to go to a dealer to diagnose, unless you can access the IMIEV workshop manual software - which I attempted to do and failed at installing.

I am yet to change a bulb or fuse on any Japanese vehicle, so I would assume the fuses would be fine... but you never know.


Thanks for the tips.
1. Regarding the fuses, I'm not sure what to look for. I'm not exactly keen on relying on the dealer. My experience with them has been less than satisfactory. Last year, when my fan broke down, they had the car for 3 days to identify the problem, charged €100. Something that in a third-party repairshop (which I took afterwards to get a 2nd opinion) took less than 10 minutes and didn't charge me anything.
2. Not sure how to check the AC condenser. The compressor and the fan make noise but what can we observe in the condenser?
3. First thing I checked. But I replaced it last year, so didn't expect anything wrong with that.
4. When the issue came up during the trip, after the QC it seemed to me that there was less airflow into the cabin, but I'm not sure if just felt that way because of the higher temperature. The problem is that right now, in day-to-day use, everything seems to be working correctly, so it's kinda hard to diagnose anything. In a couple of days I'll be making an even longer trip so I'll see what happens.
5. When I talked to an A/C technician, he told me that if it was working now, it couldn't be a lack of gas problem, since that would show up in city driving as well. I tested the direction flaps and they're working well.

phb10186
Posts: 237
Joined: Fri May 13, 2016 12:58 am
Location: North London suburbs, UK

Re: Some trouble with AC on my C-zero

Wed Jul 05, 2017 9:45 am

Thanks for the tips.
1. Regarding the fuses, I'm not sure what to look for. I'm not exactly keen on relying on the dealer. My experience with them has been less than satisfactory. Last year, when my fan broke down, they had the car for 3 days to identify the problem, charged €100. Something that in a third-party repairshop (which I took afterwards to get a 2nd opinion) took less than 10 minutes and didn't charge me anything.
2. Not sure how to check the AC condenser. The compressor and the fan make noise but what can we observe in the condenser?
3. First thing I checked. But I replaced it last year, so didn't expect anything wrong with that.
4. When the issue came up during the trip, after the QC it seemed to me that there was less airflow into the cabin, but I'm not sure if just felt that way because of the higher temperature. The problem is that right now, in day-to-day use, everything seems to be working correctly, so it's kinda hard to diagnose anything. In a couple of days I'll be making an even longer trip so I'll see what happens.
5. When I talked to an A/C technician, he told me that if it was working now, it couldn't be a lack of gas problem, since that would show up in city driving as well. I tested the direction flaps and they're working well.



responses:

1. Locate the fuse box: on my right hand drive car its near the accelerator pedal footwell area, no idea on a LHD. Pull the relevant fuses (they are named), and look for a blown fuse... google if your unsure what a blown fuse looks like. You only need to check the fuses if you think an item is broken... there is a fuse puller in the lid of the fuse box.

2. AC compressor moves as is starts, and you can feel it working. you can see the fan working, and you can feel air flow via the interior blower motor - look for differences with and with out AC on at all settings. You cant check the AC condenser, its behind the dash... where I prev said AC condenser, I meant compressor.

4. cant help you further, improvise. Could the air flow be stuck blowing cold air through the battery... thats what that internal air diverter thing within the dashboard does... I dont know where it is or what it comprises of as ive never seen it, but I envisage some sort of box with ducts running to all the cars vents that can be opened or closed. One duct will run to the battery pack though.

5. maybe - did he check the system gas??? ive had expert opinion only to try everything else and the expert be wrong - you can only truly exclude it if you check it properly by sticking a pressure meter on it. When I talk about direction flaps, im talking about a part within the dashboard that alters air direction to different vents in the car... not the actuall vents you move with your hands. You can hear the air flow changing when you select different air settings, like face and feet, window etc... If you had a problem when you quick-charged, that may be a sign, as the QC process involves setting air direction to blow through the battery pack, away from the car.. a hidden setting if you like...

Is your car CHAdeMO charging properly, as that is conditional on the AC working as part of the pairing procedure... though I dont know what factors have to be met for the AC to be regarded as 'working'.
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2010 Insight ES-T 43K
2001 Accord Type-V (F23 manual)
2009 Hornet CB600F
2008 SH300

rnlcarlov
Posts: 40
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2016 8:30 am

Re: Some trouble with AC on my C-zero

Wed Jul 05, 2017 10:21 am

phb10186 wrote:1. Locate the fuse box: on my right hand drive car its near the accelerator pedal footwell area, no idea on a LHD. Pull the relevant fuses (they are named), and look for a blown fuse... google if your unsure what a blown fuse looks like. You only need to check the fuses if you think an item is broken... there is a fuse puller in the lid of the fuse box.

2. AC compressor moves as is starts, and you can feel it working. you can see the fan working, and you can feel air flow via the interior blower motor - look for differences with and with out AC on at all settings. You cant check the AC condenser, its behind the dash... where I prev said AC condenser, I meant compressor.

4. cant help you further, improvise. Could the air flow be stuck blowing cold air through the battery... thats what that internal air diverter thing within the dashboard does... I dont know where it is or what it comprises of as ive never seen it, but I envisage some sort of box with ducts running to all the cars vents that can be opened or closed. One duct will run to the battery pack though.

5. maybe - did he check the system gas??? ive had expert opinion only to try everything else and the expert be wrong - you can only truly exclude it if you check it properly by sticking a pressure meter on it. When I talk about direction flaps, im talking about a part within the dashboard that alters air direction to different vents in the car... not the actuall vents you move with your hands. You can hear the air flow changing when you select different air settings, like face and feet, window etc... If you had a problem when you quick-charged, that may be a sign, as the QC process involves setting air direction to blow through the battery pack, away from the car.. a hidden setting if you like...

Is your car CHAdeMO charging properly, as that is conditional on the AC working as part of the pairing procedure... though I dont know what factors have to be met for the AC to be regarded as 'working'.


2. Like I said, right now everything is working normally, and I can fell the AC compressor running, in all modes. Will try to pay more attention during my road trip.

4. Yes I understood what you meant about flaps. I can hear things moving when I turn the dial, and the air comes out in the expected places. I'm quite familiar with the battery duct, as I always have it set to battery instead of my feet, which allows me to cool the battery with AC even outside DC charging. It's a trick several people here use.

I had no problem with the quick-charge per se, only that the battery wasn't been as cooled as it should. But the charge itself didn't stop. Actually, last year, when the fan broke down and the AC compressor stopped due to the rise in pressure this caused, I could still quick charge. The battery got quite hot, though.

rnlcarlov
Posts: 40
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2016 8:30 am

Re: Some trouble with AC on my C-zero

Thu Jul 13, 2017 3:42 am

Last weekend I made 1000km on my c-zero. 630km on Friday, using 9 quick-charges. Issues with the A/C? None. :shock:

It cloudy for most of the day, so it wan't very hot. After the second quick charge battery avg temp were around 33-35ºC, and they mostly kept within that range for the whole trip at highway speeds of mostly 90-100km/h.
Even after this taxing trip the A/C continued to cool well and I always saw condensation beneath the car.

Maybe what happened last time was that it was just too much heat to dissipate (quick charge under the sun) and the A/C couldn'e keep up with it. But maybe the gas is getting old/low pressure, since it used to be able to take care of that the year before.

PV1
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Re: Some trouble with AC on my C-zero

Thu Jul 13, 2017 7:40 pm

Was it rather humid before? It's possible that low pressure could've caused the coil to freeze up and restrict airflow. The reduced surface area would also cause the air to not cool as well.

The A/C in one part of my work's building froze up so bad once that it took 2 hours of running the furnace to thaw it out. In the end, 4 gallons of water leaked through the furnace, and I don't even know how much went down the drain. The cause? Low pressure, high humidity, and it running constantly due to weak airflow.
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