JoeS
Site Moderator
Posts: 3148
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2011 5:47 am
Location: Los Altos Hills, California

Re: GENTLEMEN. I need help.

Sun May 28, 2017 8:31 pm

Mievo, you are going through a phase many of us went through when we first got our i-MiEVs: how to extend its range.

Air Tabs, vortex generators, wheel skirts, etc. are discussed in Aerodynamic Mods to Reduce Drag

Air Tabs, specifically: http://myimiev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=1396

You can read those threads and draw your own conclusions. I still haven't finished my partially-fiberglassed wheel skirts and haven't much motivation to do so…

Wheels and tires: even if you could find something that would fit and not cost you an arm and two legs, you'll be hard pressed to find anything with a lower LRR than the stock i-MiEV setup.

Weight - it doesn't much matter once the car is rolling. You could try removing a pound here and there, but it won't make much of a difference compared to the horrible aerodynamic losses at speed. For example, I now continuously carry a 50# box with two spare tires and a jack and lug wrench, in addition to the almost-50# trailer hitch. Even climbing hills doesn't matter much, because you recover a lot of energy when going back down the hill.

After five years with i-MiEVs, I simply say that my range is whatever I need it to be to get to my destination, and I drive accordingly. Having a dedicated GPS with a nice instrument screen (e.g., Garmin 255) gives a DTG which you can bounce against RR for peace of mind.
http://myimiev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=566&p=32038#p25993
Most of the time I'm a leadfoot, but on rare occasions pull out my hypermiling tricks. Never have any worries, and still have never seen turtle.

My suggestion is for you to get some miles under your belt and develop a feel for the exact mileage to your verious destinations. Planning ahead soon becomes second-nature.
EVs: 2 Wht/Blu SE Prem., '13 Tesla MS85, 3 156v CorbinSparrows (2 Li-ion), 24v EcoScoot(LiFePO4)
EV Conv: 156v '86 Ram PU, 144v '65 Saab 96
Hybrids: 48v1kW bike
ICE: '88 Isuzu Trooper. Mothballed: '67 Saab (orig.owner), '76 MBZ L206D RHD RV

Mievo
Posts: 31
Joined: Mon May 15, 2017 2:49 pm
Location: Sanford, FL

Re: GENTLEMEN. I need help.

Sun May 28, 2017 10:56 pm

I may try airtabs if for nothing other than high speed stability. Also, am an on/off engineering student and I love practice. I will relish in remanufacturing oem parts from lighter materials. I would like to seal up the under carriage and test the aero effect of closing the grill vs the temp increase.

ALSO! Has anyone tried using a high performance/home-made air-to-water intercooler as a heat exchanger for the HVAC? I live in Florida. It's feckin hot. AC is mandatory after 4p, you will die.

Wheels - are there comparably sized lightweight wheels; and I mean -10kgs all around. Less than that, screw it.
Conversely; at high speed, would higher mass wheels help? Increased moment of inertia, but also higher momentum. (And unsprung weight..)

I have this crazy idea; a windbreaker. Start with an umbrella shape. Pound vortex generators into it and extend away from the front of the car. Ideally, one would want a shape with a better CD than the car.

I will be testing to see what I can do under ideal circumstances. I never have, I can only extrapolate ~70-80 miles at speeds 35-45 mph. (Half battery and 35-40RR)
"The Black Pearl" 2012 Mitsubishi iMiev, 34,9XXmi

Expert in the art of throwing a punch with back to the ground.

Don
Site Moderator
Posts: 2426
Joined: Thu May 10, 2012 3:55 pm
Location: Biloxi MS

Re: GENTLEMEN. I need help.

Mon May 29, 2017 9:28 am

There are probably a half dozen things you can do which would get you an extra 1 or 2% of range . . . . in theory - It's hard to actually see any improvement in real world conditions, probably because you can waste more than 3 or 4% in all sorts of ways - One jackrabbit start, one quick acceleration from 30 to 60 and then your 'improvement' is nil

As Joe mentioned, we have all kinds of threads here going back 5+ years where nearly everything you can think of has been tried, usually with little to no provable improvement. You could spend big bucks and lots of time to remove 100 pounds from the car and never see the 'expected' 1 or 2% improvement in range. If I'm ever in an accident in one of these cars, I would want every pound of metal the factory put in there and more

Keep the tires properly inflated, gentle on the accelerator and stay away from friction braking can get you 10 or 15% more range than the way you're accustomed to driving an 'ordinary' car - If you want/need longer range, that's the best place to start. Those skills will come in very handy one day when you have 15 miles left to go and your RR only says you can go 8 or 10 - You'll make it if you're careful

The A/C takes away 10 or 15% of your range - Careful driving can get you back about the same amount

Don
2012 iMiEV SE Premium, White
2012 iMiEV SE, White
2014 Ford Transit Connect XLT SWB wagon, 14,000 miles
1994 Miata 60K miles - Soon to be sold
1979 Honda CBX six into six

Mievo
Posts: 31
Joined: Mon May 15, 2017 2:49 pm
Location: Sanford, FL

Re: GENTLEMEN. I need help.

Tue May 30, 2017 8:15 am

I'm aware of the driving efficiency improvements. I can manage 70 or so miles on my off days. I am relegated to 45-50 miles at 45-60mph speeds for work though. I do the speed limit, and many folks are upset about that. I was looking for any booster that could help range. I am not one for chincy cobbled together material. I build tough. I'll sift through the forum history, thanks.
"The Black Pearl" 2012 Mitsubishi iMiev, 34,9XXmi

Expert in the art of throwing a punch with back to the ground.

Don
Site Moderator
Posts: 2426
Joined: Thu May 10, 2012 3:55 pm
Location: Biloxi MS

Re: GENTLEMEN. I need help.

Tue May 30, 2017 1:05 pm

Mievo wrote:I'm aware of the driving efficiency improvements. I can manage 70 or so miles on my off days.
That' a tremendous improvement from your first post here 2 weeks ago - At least now you know there's nothing wrong with the car!

Don
2012 iMiEV SE Premium, White
2012 iMiEV SE, White
2014 Ford Transit Connect XLT SWB wagon, 14,000 miles
1994 Miata 60K miles - Soon to be sold
1979 Honda CBX six into six

Mievo
Posts: 31
Joined: Mon May 15, 2017 2:49 pm
Location: Sanford, FL

Re: GENTLEMEN. I need help.

Fri Jun 02, 2017 2:48 pm

No, no. After one entire week of close calls and too much drinking (range-anxiety related); I am convinced that I have access to 60% of he car's battery.


Everyone in this thread, I want charge times. Mine will charge from --- to full in ~4 hours on my apartment Chargepoint Station.

I believe about 16 hours on the 8amp 120v.
"The Black Pearl" 2012 Mitsubishi iMiev, 34,9XXmi

Expert in the art of throwing a punch with back to the ground.

Don
Site Moderator
Posts: 2426
Joined: Thu May 10, 2012 3:55 pm
Location: Biloxi MS

Re: GENTLEMEN. I need help.

Fri Jun 02, 2017 3:29 pm

Mievo wrote:Everyone in this thread, I want charge times. Mine will charge from --- to full in ~4 hours on my apartment Chargepoint Station.
Charge times vary greatly depending on what you're using to charge the car - Not a good basis for any meaningful battery comparison. Also, the '---' on the RR display isn't an indication of either how much energy you have used, nor how much energy you have remaining in the battery. It's just a calculated indication of how far you can go based on how much energy you have used to cover the previous 15 miles so it can vary all over the place and you can't count on that as a meaningful point when attempting to compare anything

You could ask to compare EVBatMon readings with others here and that will tell you how your battery compares with others here who are using that app - Nobody is going to see anything near 16 kw, so don't be alarmed if you see 13.5 to 14.5 kw

Don
2012 iMiEV SE Premium, White
2012 iMiEV SE, White
2014 Ford Transit Connect XLT SWB wagon, 14,000 miles
1994 Miata 60K miles - Soon to be sold
1979 Honda CBX six into six

veimi
Posts: 54
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2016 5:02 pm
Location: Toronto Canada

Re: GENTLEMEN. I need help.

Fri Jun 02, 2017 3:42 pm

Mievo wrote:I believe about 16 hours on the 8amp 120v.

Mine also takes approximately this long to reach 16 bars from less than 2 bars, but if left plugged in will continue charging significantly longer (18 hours total) because of balancing.

My RR after 16 hours - 67.7 mi. (109 km)

My RR after 18 hours - 68.3 mi. (110 km)

Mievo
Posts: 31
Joined: Mon May 15, 2017 2:49 pm
Location: Sanford, FL

Re: GENTLEMEN. I need help.

Sat Jun 03, 2017 5:38 am

Yeah, I do mean full; charging stops. I'd like EVbatmon, but it's $18 and I'll need a more advanced obdii scanner. I can't rely on the RR until it's under half and I've been steady. I have not made it home 3 times this week. I have had to stop an pick up extra power, before being able to get home. I've quick charged 5 times since getting the car. I have enrolled in EVgo's "On the Go" plan.

If I use highways at 60mph or under; needle in eco in eco mode, my range will be 35mi or less. I always need destination charging. I only make return trips from the Mount Dora job site because it is a flat state route and there are many large trucks to break the wind.
"The Black Pearl" 2012 Mitsubishi iMiev, 34,9XXmi

Expert in the art of throwing a punch with back to the ground.

JoeS
Site Moderator
Posts: 3148
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2011 5:47 am
Location: Los Altos Hills, California

Re: GENTLEMEN. I need help.

Sat Jun 03, 2017 9:48 am

Mievo wrote:...I have enrolled in EVgo's "On the Go" plan.
That's expensive! :cry:

Mievo wrote:If I use highways at 60mph or under; needle in eco in eco mode, my range will be 35mi or less...
That doesn't jibe with what you wrote earlier.

Although it does sound as though you have battery degradation, we won't know until you measure it. What follow-up did you have with the dealer after their "technician's fiddling" supposedly fixed the problem? I would still be tempted to try to get the dealership to provide you with a quantitative battery capacity readout - this is a brave new world of production electric vehicles and I would expect that figure to be a relevant part of a used vehicle purchase from a dealership - just as an odometer reading or ICE engine health check.
EVs: 2 Wht/Blu SE Prem., '13 Tesla MS85, 3 156v CorbinSparrows (2 Li-ion), 24v EcoScoot(LiFePO4)
EV Conv: 156v '86 Ram PU, 144v '65 Saab 96
Hybrids: 48v1kW bike
ICE: '88 Isuzu Trooper. Mothballed: '67 Saab (orig.owner), '76 MBZ L206D RHD RV

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