John
Posts: 6
Joined: Sun Nov 08, 2015 7:45 am
Location: E Sussex UK

Citroen C Zero v Renault Zoe.

Sun Nov 08, 2015 9:01 am

I'm looking at buying a electric car early next year. Apart from four or five 90 mile round trips a year to rural Kent, a weekly charge will support my other mileage. There are two car park chargers five miles from my destination in Kent, so using a C Zero is practical. The only reservation I have is that the local Citroen dealer doesn't appear to support this particular car.
How big a problem is that likely to be? I don't mind travelling 20 miles for a test drive and purchase, but would prefer someone nearer for servicing.

Barbagris
Posts: 226
Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2013 8:34 am
Location: Bilbao, Spain

Re: Citroen C Zero v Renault Zoe.

Sun Nov 08, 2015 10:26 am

- The Zoe can do a 90-mile trip without recharge, i-MiEV/C-Zero/iOn no, at normal speeds. A charger five miles from your destination? OK if is a CHAdeMO quick charger, but with a normal charger you need probably 4 hours...

- If your Citroën dealer do not cooperate, can you try a Mitsu or Peugeot? Otherwise, this car has very low servicing.

- With the Zoe, at least in my country, you must hire the battery; it represents a substantial monthly fee and a complication when selling the car (you have to transfer the lease)
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wmcbrine
Posts: 316
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2015 10:26 am
Location: Laurel, MD
Contact: Website

Re: Citroen C Zero v Renault Zoe.

Sun Nov 08, 2015 10:34 am

EVs in general need much less service than the average car. There's some question as to whether the periodic maintenance visits for the i-MiEV and twins are even necessary.

Since I've had my i-MiEV in April, I've had to go back to the dealer once, just to have the dashboard air bag light cleared (they said it was from the 12V battery getting too low). The only other things I've done are filling the tires (at home), charging (mostly at home), and getting a wash (only reason to visit a gas station).

John
Posts: 6
Joined: Sun Nov 08, 2015 7:45 am
Location: E Sussex UK

Re: Citroen C Zero v Renault Zoe.

Mon Nov 09, 2015 3:39 pm

Thanks. Both are Type 2 Mennekes, one of which seems to have been out of action for a few weeks. And if four hours on 13A is enough, that would be available at my destination.
There are two other chargers I could use on route, but if 30 minutes will give 80% capacity, the less remaining charge the better.
I realise I will need a suitable cable. I'd prefer the Citroen for the bright colours, but it doesn't really matter. I'll contact the local dealer and ask. If money was no object, I'd go for the BMW i3.

Barbagris
Posts: 226
Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2013 8:34 am
Location: Bilbao, Spain

Re: Citroen C Zero v Renault Zoe.

Mon Nov 09, 2015 10:50 pm

For the C-Zero and public chargers, you will need (I think) a Mennekes/J1772 cable, like this:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Premium-Chargin ... 00YMZ99CY/

The Zoe has his own Mennekes/Mennekes cable, but (I think) don't has a EVSE for charge in a socket.

Edit: don't know why, but my link try to point at Amazon UK (.co.uk) and get Amazon USA... (.com)
Last edited by Barbagris on Tue Nov 10, 2015 4:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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jsantala
Posts: 296
Joined: Fri Sep 12, 2014 9:32 pm
Location: Finland
Contact: Website

Re: Citroen C Zero v Renault Zoe.

Tue Nov 10, 2015 1:21 am

The Amazon link didn't work for me, but here's a another shop selling J1772-Type2 cable for the C-Zero for just 95 GBP:

https://evconnectors.com/Electric-Vehic ... siec-ev16p

As you know, C-Zero can ever only charge at 3.3 kW or 14.5A at 230V from a Type 2 AC socket, whereas the Zoe can charge at up to 43 kW depending on the model and the available power. On the other hand, Zoe cannot use the CHAdeMO quick DC charging (or any other DC quick charger) which the C-Zero can. CHAdeMO stations are quite common, but Type 2 is gaining ground and I'd hazard a guess that high power Type 2 will be more common in Europe in the long run due to it's simplicity, price and wider compatibility.

In my opinion, it comes down to battery size and available charging. The Zoe is a good choice if it can cover the whole trip without charging or if there's high power Type 2 available en route. Actually I'm a little doubtful if the Zoe can do the whole 90 mile trip without charging at all. Especially in the winter it probably can't, so you'd need to top it up at some point.

If you have CHAdeMO available at half way, you could be able to do the 90 mile trip with just single DC quick charge. Certainly with two. Of course, pricing and looks play a bit part as well, but other than that available charging would be a big factor for me.
kWsaki.com / EVs: Nissan Leaf 2012, Citroën Xsara 1997 (conv. 81V & 8" Series DC) and Kawasaki GPX750R 1987 (conv. 87V & ME1003 PMDC) / Used to have a Citroën C-Zero 2011

John
Posts: 6
Joined: Sun Nov 08, 2015 7:45 am
Location: E Sussex UK

Re: Citroen C Zero v Renault Zoe.

Thu Nov 12, 2015 6:16 am

Winters in Sussex aren't that bad, and snow is rare at Christmas. Even though I think I could do a 90 mile round trip in a Zoe, I wouldn't chance it to avoid a half hour charge. Not when there are friends and family likely to want to be driven in it. :)

Barbagris
Posts: 226
Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2013 8:34 am
Location: Bilbao, Spain

Re: Citroen C Zero v Renault Zoe.

Thu Nov 12, 2015 1:55 pm

John wrote:There are two other chargers I could use on route, but if 30 minutes will give 80% capacity, the less remaining charge the better.


Remember that they had very different fast charge systems.

The C-Zero in DC (CHAdeMO)
The Zoe in AC (the old 210, three-phase up to 43 kW... if you find that charger; the modern 240, at 21 kW, takes longer to charge)

I do not know if you have availability of these fast chargers in Sussex.
...learning...

jsantala
Posts: 296
Joined: Fri Sep 12, 2014 9:32 pm
Location: Finland
Contact: Website

Re: Citroen C Zero v Renault Zoe.

Fri Nov 13, 2015 12:21 pm

I dunno if 21 kW is really that slow. My C-Zero can charge about 10 kWh in 30 minutes from CHAdemo. That's 20 kW on average. And it's fast enough for me.
kWsaki.com / EVs: Nissan Leaf 2012, Citroën Xsara 1997 (conv. 81V & 8" Series DC) and Kawasaki GPX750R 1987 (conv. 87V & ME1003 PMDC) / Used to have a Citroën C-Zero 2011

Zelenec
Posts: 249
Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2013 12:21 am
Location: sLOVEnia
Contact: Website

Re: Citroen C Zero v Renault Zoe.

Sun Nov 15, 2015 1:47 pm

John, what about Zoe's battery rental costs? I believe in UK also you can't buy but only lease the battery. If so, I would make a calculation about profitability. The price of monthly battery rental and electricity cost is at least 8€/100 km. That makes driving Zoe far more expensive as any small diesel car.
Tired of smelly garage - switched to EV!
Zelenec = Greeny, Treehugger, Ecofan

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