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TonyWilliams

Member
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Feb 28, 2015
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SUBJECT: Comments on DC Fast Charger Installations for CALIFORNIA West Coast Electric Highway

FROM: Electric Auto Association, Electric Vehicle Corridor Charging Group

DATE: March 16, 2015

Introduction and Purpose

What follows is the our input for the completion of the West Coast Electric Highway (WCEH) in California with DC Fast Charger (DCFC) along corridors. We are addressing the following questions:

1. What is the order of the roll out by corridor and why?
2. Is a spacing of 40 miles between DCFCs acceptable?
3. Is starting with one CHAdeMO / SAE unit with conduit for additional chargers acceptable?
4. What are the minimum requirements for a site?

We believe a statewide Electric Vehicle (EV) infrastructure plan should be based on the following principles, and we used these criteria in making our corridor recommendations:

● Connect existing EV metro areas with corridors and complete the WCEH.
● Meet our state’s obligation to the WCEH.
● Maximize population areas served.
● Provide leadership by investing in important corridors with locations that may not be attractive to private industry for economic or logistical reasons.
● Maximize benefits to Environmental Justice Communities.
● Maximize exposure to communities with low EV adoption with access to charging infrastructure that currently only exists in large metro areas.

A patchwork network of DCFC stations already exists in parts of California. Existing stations should be included in the WCEH if they meet the standards discussed in this proposal. To foster this, the state should consider providing grants to existing station responsible parties along the proposed WCEH route if they agree to the proposed California WCEH standards.

In applying these criteria, we have considered the needs of current EVs with driving ranges of 80 miles in addition to the potential 150-200 mile range cars that are expected in calendar year 2017 and beyond. Furthermore, older, lower range cars with long lifespans will also be available for modest sums in this period; opening up EV travel to a wider range of economic classes.

Corridor Roll Out Order Recommendations:

1. Our highest priority recommendation is to develop a charging corridor from the Oregon border at the town of Yreka, then south on Interstate 5 (I-5) to Red Bluff, then State Highway 99 (CA-99) through the Central Valley to connect to I-5 again south of Bakersfield, and finally to the US / Mexico border in San Diego. In considering the routing of the WCEH and evaluating the choice between the I-5 and CA-99 corridors, we strongly urge the selection of the CA-99 corridor. This route serves the heart of the Central Valley with its current population of 5.7 million. These counties combined had a faster population growth rate than other regions of California. CA-99 connects the largest number of metro areas, can provide fast charging within these underserved communities, and supports air quality improvements in regions needing it most. The Valley’s air quality remains at non-attainment levels throughout. The Valley has the most people at risk for asthma, bronchitis and emphysema.

State support for the CA-99 corridor creates the opportunity for EV ownership for those who currently can't participate in the EV community. This will maximize the long-term investment the public has made in these vehicles by allowing the use of used EVs the ability to serve a wider geographic area where they are needed the most. Also, it opens up these routes for users who do not have the economic means to purchase new EVs. The per capita income of the Valley is significantly below the state average. While the cost of new EVs may make them beyond the reach of these residents, the used car market for EVs is showing these vehicles will likely be affordable if there is adequate public charging support to deal with the reduced range.

2. After the I-5 / CA-99 / I-5 North-South corridor is completed, then we recommend installing DCFCs on US Highway 101 (US-101) between Los Angeles and San Jose as the next highest priority. This will connect the San Francisco Bay Area and Santa Barbara / Santa Ynez regions with the Salinas Valley, Monterey, and the Central Coast (population 2.3 million). There will be approximately a 200 mile gap once the Sunspeed Network DCFCs are completed in San Luis Obispo later in 2015, and this gap could be filled with only 4 charging stations separated by approximately 40 miles. For example, these locations could be in Gilroy, Gonzales, San Lucas, and Paso Robles. The Gonzales and San Lucas stations are located in relatively remote regions of the Salinas Valley so it is important for the state to develop these locations than may not be attractive to private industry. This corridor could connect the Central Valley to the Central Coast.

Is a spacing of 40 miles between DCFCs acceptable?

We are concerned about ensuring that a failed station does not strand a driver. A 40 mile distance means a failed station requires an 80 mile range. This exceeds the range of the most common short range EVs such as the Nissan LEAF. The EPA range on these cars of 80 to 85 does not cover freeway speeds, or travel with significant heater or air conditioning use, or a reduced range expected after a few years of operation from “battery degradation”, and / or the 80% maximum charge limit with some DCFCs.

The backbone of the Central Valley corridor should have stations in larger existing communities to maximize the overall goals of the program. Placing stations at Yreka, Weed, Dunsmuir, Redding, Red Bluff, Chico, Oroville, Yuba City, Sacramento, Lodi, Stockton, Modesto, Turlock, Merced, Madera Fresno, Selma, Tulare, Delano, Bakersfield, Lebec, Castaic serves these communities and provides a spacing between 14 and 40 miles. This will also provide service to the large number of Environmental Justice Communities identified in this corridor. In the rural areas north of Redding, it may be necessary for stations to be placed outside of a town.

A 40 mile separation can work if there are several L2 backing up failures of the DCFC. In the case of a DCFC failure, a limited range vehicle would have to take time to add additional miles with the L2 charge station. Assuming 1 hour of incremental L2 charge is necessary to reach the next station, two backup L2 chargers would handle an arrival rate of one per 30 minutes, and four would handle one per 15 minutes. In addition, L2 can serve local needs as well as a backup to a failed DCFC.

Shorter than 40 miles spacing will be required for corridors with significant elevation gain and / or cold climates. Approximately 6 miles of range are lost for every 1000 foot increase in elevation for a typical EV. This will affect the northern part of I-5 between Redding and Yreka and over the “Grapevine” between Bakersfield and Los Angeles.

Is starting with one CHAdeMO / SAE unit with conduit for additional chargers acceptable at each location?

Yes, a single station with both CHAdeMO and SAE charging standards should be the minimum. We recommend alternating 50 kW and 100 kW units to provide a network that is adequate for both the current short-range EVs (charge at 50 kW every 40 miles) and support the longer range EVs to be introduced in 2017 and later (charge at 100 kW every 80 miles).

As stated above, there needs to be at least two L2 charging stations at each location (with infrastructure to add more if needed) to serve as backup for failure as well as overflow capacity. More than two may be required for higher traffic areas and local needs.

Since no current 100 kW DCFC units are currently available, we recommend that these alternating sites have transformers and other infrastructure capable of 100 kW operation. All sites should have conduit installed to meet this future eventuality.

What are the minimum requirements for a site?

Sites should provide (in descending order):

● 24 hour / 7 day availability (not locked in a parking garage or limited access private area)
● Safety / security & comfort (lighting, adjacent to some services, etc)
● Highway exit signage that conforms to existing WCEH standards set by Oregon, Washington and British Columbia
● Parking lot signage with logical and easy to follow directions
● Parking stalls marked with California Vehicle Code (CVC) 22511 language

Highly valued criteria (in descending order):

● Restrooms
● Food service
● Shading from sun, possibly with solar PV panels

Additional Remarks

The DCFCs will have to be easy to use and be well maintained for long distance corridor charging networks to be successful. It would be ideal if all corridor DCFCs could accept at least one common form of payment, e.g., a credit card and optionally the addition of a common network card. Second, locating them close to the corridor highways (within 5 minute drive time). The stations need to be publically available at all times (24 x 7 x 365) to all compatible vehicles.

Reliability / Uptime

The CEC provided significant leadership in prior years to support the rollout of charging stations with significant value enabling EV sales growth. Unfortunately, we are seeing that several brands of DCFCs have shown high mortality rates and are undergoing expensive repairs and / or have long lead times to repair. Certainly, a downed charger increases costs, but beyond that, a downed station may create a break in the chain that prevents many EVs from transiting the corridor. Just as important, it takes away confidence in the use of public charging stations.

We recommend three actions:

● With respect to failure rates, require 10 year warranties on all equipment. The warranty might have two components, a 5 year base warranty by the DCFC manufacturer and / or distributor of that equipment, and an extended warranty which might be funded by the station owner. The warranty should cover parts and labor.

● A target of 99% uptime should be required. Each proposal for a station should have a manufacturer’s preventive maintenance plan supported and implemented. The uptime requirement would be exclusive of rare preventive maintenance with published down times at late night. Lack of preventive maintenance is a high source of failures, particularly with high amperage equipment in hot locations, as is with much of WCEH.

● Reliability issues often arise from the payment and networking components. The individual DCFCs must be capable of operating when the network, card reader or fob reader doesn’t work. In other words, the default setting is that it ALWAYS works, and that the networking and payment methods are additions. This is a significant change from the status quo. Care should be given to avoid solutions that increase station failure rate. It’s not uncommon for us to see failures with credit card readers at gas stations. In that case, a gas car driver can switch to another reader or go inside a station to pay, ensuring they won’t be stranded. We need a level of dependability and driver confidence on the same level as gas stations.

Maintaining the DCFCs in operational status with infrequent faults is essential for providing a reliable network. Status information (vacant / non-operational / in-use) must also be available via the internet (for instance, on the CalTrans site) or a mobile app (ideally in real time).

To win the struggle of our current and future transportation needs, we must decide to accept the challenges and move forward with funding and action. Let’s demonstrate strong leadership for EV adoption through completion of the WCEH.

Thank you again for providing this opportunity to comment, and please do not hesitate to contact us in the future.

Sincerely,

Ron Freund,
San Francisco Bay Area Chairman EAA
Randal Friedman Sacramento
EAA Member

Guy Hall
Sacramento
President SacEV
EAA Board Member

Randal Friedman
Sacramento
EAA Member

Tony Williams
San Diego
Quick Charge Power LLC
BC2BC Rally Organizer

Tom Greene
Redwood City
EAA Member

Paul Gipe
Bakersfield
Author, Renewable Energy Industry Analyst
EAA Member
 
I hate to be a Debbie Downer in this thread, but EV technology being where it is at the moment. .... The EV is a local driver. We should not be building a multi billion dollar charging network for a technology level that will be outdated soon.

Charging stations should be built out of need, and I'm afraid the need isn't quite there yet. There has to be a profit in these stations or they will never work. If you charge a high enough fee to use one of these stations for it to be profitable, you might as well burn gasoline.... For your long distance driving.

I'm not saying that we shouldn't aspire to better things.... and I do love my imiev... For what it is.

In my mind, and maybe there is a flaw in my thinking, the only way charging stations are going to catch on is if current gas stations add the DC chargers to their existing infrastructure. They already have the real estate set aside, they are already in the convenient locations, they have bathrooms, lottery machines, and Big Slurpees. Now there's a success story waiting to happen.
 
I was thinking along the same lines. How many rest areas are there on the proposed corridors, and how far apart are they? Also, what restaurants, convenience stores, etc. would be willing to add QC's?

A thing to remember is that the Nissan LEAF has been around for four years, so it is about due for an overhaul for a new model year. The race is on for the affordable 200-mile EV, which gets the EV up into the range of gasoline cars. I still agree that chargers be about 40-50 miles apart so there is some flexibility as to where someone would like to stop as well as redundancy and backwards compatibility with short range EVs. I plan to keep my i-MiEVs as long as possible, and I have had the urge to do an electric road trip for a while now. With the Nissan dealers in my area starting to get quick chargers put in, more options for travel are opening up for me.

I'd love to see an electric infrastructure similar to gas stations (on that scale), but we shouldn't punish the early adopters and pioneers like most of us that paved the way for such an infrastructure. Use existing spaces along the highways to get started, then fill in the gaps with new locations.
 
I think that the fundamental failure of assumptions here is that the goal should be "long distance corridor charging networks".
Absolutely not. The advantage of DCFC is regional travel, not long distance corridors. I love accessing DCFC for 100+ mile trips to Seattle and back, but it turns the 2 1/2 hr drive down to Portland into at least a 4 hour expedition that can require over 5 hours if you get stuck in synch with some southbound LEAFs.

Whether a LEAF or an i-MiEV, CHAdeMO (or CCS) is simply not fast enough energy transfer for widespread acceptance on long distance trips. 50 kW sounds great, like over 150 mph of charging, but on the West Coast Electric Highway with 40 mile spacing, it means that on the highway we have to charge for 20 minutes, then drive for 40 minutes. LEAF drivers can't skip a station either, so an i-MiEV can outrun a LEAF down I-5. (Drive like hell and spend less time recharging to leapfrog the LEAF in front of you.) A larger battery only enables longer commutes, unless accompanied by a faster charger. TESLA knows this.
Even with 120 kW of DCFC, TESLA Supercharger sessions seem to average more like 120 mph worth of range recovery. That's still significantly more time spent on pit stops than with a gasser. (Five minutes of refueling every 300 miles or so?)

This is another reason that I'm sticking with the iMiEV and refining the pusher trailer. Uncompromised highway range with the most affordable and practical EV available, but still using less gas overall and with a little refinement, I hope to match a good highway cruiser in the 35-40 mpg range.

Long distance corridor travel by EV will be a fringe benefit of widespread DCFC deployment, but not the primary use of it. I posit that the stations will be used more by local and regional drivers than by folks just passin' through.
 
How about a hydrogen fuel cell extender? Not that I know the feasibility of it, but it just seems like something to inquire about.
 
About the same efficiency as a gas engine, but much more expensive, plus far fewer refueling stations.

I think the biggest game changer would be in-road wireless charging. I did some measurements last summer when kicking around the idea of a biodiesel generator, and found that a generator outputting 25 amps would be sufficient to maintain a perpetual 45 MPH, which is roughly 8.5 kW. There are systems in development that are said to be capable of transferring 10 kW to the car above. So, if 10 kW is being fed to the car while driving, and the car is using 15 kW to maintain highway speeds, that is about 3 hours of driving before the battery runs out of charge, at which point you've traveled ~180 miles with a 16 kWh battery and could use a DCQC to juice up to 80% in 20 minutes while eating/using the restroom/stretching legs. If you average a usage of 12 kW, now you could travel for 7 hours before running out of charge. Suppose that is 55 MPH, you've now traveled 385 miles. I've said it before, going farther by going slower.

If people don't change their expectations from liquid fuels, there is going to be quite a wait until battery technology can reach that point of recharging in 5 minutes. It may be commercially impossible. Who knows. Even if batteries could charge that fast and have 350-400 mile range, how are you going to transfer that much energy in that time frame? One car could crash the local grid in its current shape. Battery to battery transfer may help, but the cabling would be huge. Honestly, I don't think charge time would ever need to be that fast (when was the last time you were in and out of a gas station in 5 minutes?). I think 10-15 minutes would be more than enough.

I think at some point, there will have to be either battery swapping or in-road power transfer. This is something that could be done with Solar Roadways, since clean solar power is generated right there in the road. They have estimated that Solar Roadways can generate more than 3 times the electricity we use as a nation.
 
There will never be a an EV charging network as pervasive as gasoline stations. They will add the DC chargers when the cost comes down, and it is economically feasible (...free market).

All of the mentioned "ideas" are nice, but not technically nor economically feasible...TODAY.

Meanwhile, I'm gonna use my iMiev for what that which it was intended.
 
jray3 said:
I think that the fundamental failure of assumptions here is that the goal should be "long distance corridor charging networks".
Absolutely not. The advantage of DCFC is regional travel, not long distance corridors. I love accessing DCFC for 100+ mile trips to Seattle and back, but it turns the 2 1/2 hr drive down to Portland into at least a 4 hour expedition that can require over 5 hours if you get stuck in synch with some southbound LEAFs.

A great argument to add more chargers, eh?

Couldn't a guy in Ashland, Oregon get charged up there and drive to just Redding? The route, like any route, doesn't require that you drive the whole distance!

I doubt many people drive from San Diego to Seattle on I-5, yet the freeway goes th whole distance.


Whether a LEAF or an i-MiEV, CHAdeMO (or CCS) is simply not fast enough energy transfer for widespread acceptance on long distance trips. 50 kW sounds great, like over 150 mph of charging, but on the West Coast Electric Highway with 40 mile spacing, it means that on the highway we have to charge for 20 minutes, then drive for 40 minutes.


You'll note that we included provisions for 100kW stations every 80 miles, also.


Even with 120 kW of DCFC, TESLA Supercharger sessions seem to average more like 120 mph worth of range recovery. That's still significantly more time spent on pit stops than with a gasser. (Five minutes of refueling every 300 miles or so?)

This is another reason that I'm sticking with the iMiEV and refining the pusher trailer. Uncompromised highway range with the most affordable and practical EV available, but still using less gas overall and with a little refinement, I hope to match a good highway cruiser in the 35-40 mpg range.


So, you're answer is gasoline?


Long distance corridor travel by EV will be a fringe benefit of widespread DCFC deployment, but not the primary use of it. I posit that the stations will be used more by local and regional drivers than by folks just passin' through.


And exactly why we need to build it.
 
Phximiev said:
How about a hydrogen fuel cell extender? Not that I know the feasibility of it, but it just seems like something to inquire about.

Batteries are expensive, and so is a hydrogen fuel cell and the storage tank that can handle 10,000 psi (700 atmospheres of pressure). Having either in a car is an expensive proposition, having both is lunacy!!!

Plus, there currently is about a dozen H2 stations in the entire USA, and most of them are in SoCal.

Two HUGE strikes against H2.
 
Just out of curiousity, what does a hydrogen fuel cell cost?

And where would one get it?

And what would a pressurized hydrogen tank cost?

And again where would one get a tank?

The stuff has to be out there with cars like the Tucson and Mirai around even if its unique.
 
I see 2 problems with hydrogen. First, the space people complain that they cannot store hydrogen. On the way to mars they loose more than half of their H2 fuel. First thing on mars they have to convert it with local CO2 to methan so they can store it for some time.

Second, it needs a lot of energy to pump and compress a reasonable amount of H2 into a fuel container. More energy actually than remains for driving. Nothing gained compared to oil.

Cheers
Peter and Karin
 
Back on-topic, the letter from Ron Freund et al provides a good roadmap for the powers-that-be. An expanded DCFC network will benefit our CHAdeMO-equipped i-MiEVs by allowing us to take longer trips routinely, with maybe even the occasional long trip just for fun. Sadly, with our 16kWh pack necessitating stopping every 40 miles or so for a 20-minute 80% recharge and only a 3.1kW charger for top-up, traveling the full length of the West Coast Electric Highway most would deem as impractical by the i-MiEV.

Not to worry, as the i-MiEV already exceeds 99% of our family's present trip needs, and now a visit to friends 100-miles away will become a reasonable excursion needing only a single DCFC stop (yes, the presumption is that my friends will let me plug in at their place and fully refill before we set off for home). The future is looking ever-brighter for EVs!

Edit: I just realized that I repeated what jray3 had said - that the benefit to us will be expansion of regional travel.
 
Though I live in the American Automotive heartland, Michigan, we have only 2 DCQC in the whole state at present...got to love our waiting for perfected technology!!! We waited long enough government support evaporated for the 1st round of support for chargers. Now few communities want to place or support further placement of chargers in the state. Its being done, but its much harder and slower. We are waiting for Nissan, BMW... anyone to place chargers... (Wait!! GM and Chevrolet are placing chargers... for purchasers of their cars!)

So far as the West Coast, I'd encourage placement of DCQC 35 miles apart. Not all electric vehicle owners will actually buy the latest technology every few years. If its possible to place them near, (but not too near) restaurants, not far off exits of highways... that will be extremely encouraging. To support it being a distance model rather than local model, I'd suggest a fee, at least higher than local electric rates, but less expensive than a relatively comparable rate of gasoline. This will encourage local people to charge at home, unless it is an emergency and open space for travelers to use the service. I would not encourage reservations from a distance, but I would encourage robust reporting telematics, so travelers could estimate availability within a few miles.
 
just checked plugshare and it's operational ! :D

https://www.engadget.com/2016/09/13/bmw-and-vw-coastal-ev-charging-stations/

considering doing a SanJose <-> LA roadtrip. The parking cost per minute pushes the cost per mile over petrol for a 40MPG vehicle.
 
pbui19 said:
just checked plugshare and it's operational ! :D
Um, I just checked PlugShare, and you can't get there from here in an i-MiEV using CHAdeMO: huge gap between Salinas and San Luis Obispo (126 miles) or from Los Banos to Coalinga (78 miles), but it's getting better... :D

Edit: you conceivably could do it if you go all the way East to Highway 99, although the southern end over the Grapevine could be iffy.
 
pbui19 said:
https://www.engadget.com/2016/09/13/bmw-and-vw-coastal-ev-charging-stations/
Umm, the i3 REx doesn't have a Combo plug (at least it wasn't available when I looked at them). Maybe this will be the start of making the Combo plug the standard for public charging (since it seems unlikely for anyone except Tesla to use HAL2)?
 
Joe - check again, you may have to clear your browser's cache. There is one in King City and one in Paso Robles. Of course, it's a bit dicey to rely on these so remotely located, as they are known to be down. For example, a plugsharer (Susie) reported the Paso Robles's L3 EVSE was down on Nov21. Best to have a backup plan
 
JoeS said:
Um, I just checked PlugShare, and you can't get there from here in an i-MiEV using CHAdeMO...
pbui19 said:
Joe - check again, you may have to clear your browser's cache. There is one in King City and one in Paso Robles. Of course, it's a bit dicey to rely on these so remotely located, as they are known to be down. For example, a plugsharer (Susie) reported the Paso Robles's L3 EVSE was down on Nov21. Best to have a backup plan
:eek: Paul, you really had me going on this one as PlugShare is my bible :!: . In my post I was referring ONLY to CHAdeMO, and the ones in King City and Paso Robles are L2, not L3. Hopefully they'll be adding some L3 CHAdeMO along this highway soon, but for now it's a couple of long stops to recharge. After driving the Tesla I'm spoiled rotten when it comes to not waiting to charge :twisted:
 
Yes, need to review all the PlugShare options. I DO have "Payment Required" as well as "Show Restricted Locations" checked. I think I figured it out after looking at the image you emailed me: perhaps you had both CHAdeMO and CCS checked? I need to talk with the PlugShare guys because if you enter a car you own (such as a Tesla) then they automatically assume you want Tesla charging and if you only check CHAdeMO without Tesla being checked they then dim the option. Too much handholding...

I think I have a few posts at PlugShare SuperCharger sites identifying me as "JoeS's i-MiEV" :twisted:
 
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