Don
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Re: Practical solutions for extending cold weather range

Wed Sep 19, 2012 4:52 pm

dsmall24us wrote:Link to a story on how BMW is working on using infrared to heat their ev's in cold weather.

http://www.torquenews.com/1079/bmw-turn ... ed-heating
Interesting. I wonder how hard it would be to wire up three 120 volt, 250 watt infared bulbs in series and connect them to the cars 330 volt power with a switch for on/off?

http://www.amazon.com/WATTS-HOURS-LIGHT ... B000STDLFE

This would consume less than 750 watts of electicity (the cars heater uses 5,000 watts when it's full on) and it might make a real difference in the cabin temperature

Don
2012 iMiEV SE Premium, White
2012 iMiEV SE, White
2017 Chevy Volt Premier
2014 Ford Transit Connect XLT SWB wagon, 14,000 miles
1979 Honda CBX six into six

sandange
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Re: Practical solutions for extending cold weather range

Thu Sep 20, 2012 5:05 am

MLucas - Our temps this morning were 37f, (3c) starting to get fresh

I just want to see how well the unit will keep the cabin warm and going to keep an eye on the humidity levels too.

To start with I'll turn the heater on before I depart and try to control the temperature and humidity levels by adjusting the size of the opening of one of the rear windows.

I had considered setting the heater more forward and facing it backward so the driver could reach back to access the controls on the unit, but not too sure yet of how hot things get and if I do that I'm concerned about the upright rear seat beside the heater getting too hot. Also the rear passenger possibly touching the hot heater's surface.


dsmall24us & Don
Thanks for the infrared links, This is very interesting information, hopefully to be available soon.
Tesla Model 3 SR+, 2019
Previous EVs
Puey Bluey 2014 Miev
200,000 km , 124.000 miles.
Blackie - 2012 ES Miev 2 years - 67,000 km / (41,630 miles)
http://thecordstead.blogspot.ca/

MLucas
Posts: 833
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Location: Niagara on the Lake, Ontario, Canada

Re: Practical solutions for extending cold weather range

Thu Sep 20, 2012 8:29 am

Don wrote:Interesting. I wonder how hard it would be to wire up three 120 volt, 250 watt infared bulbs in series and connect them to the cars 330 volt power with a switch for on/off?


Wouldn't that be a bit too much? We used to heat a bathroom with just one of these things and that was plenty of heat. And how would it be controlled?

Wouldn't the i look like some kind of rolling all-you-can-eat buffet going down the road?

Just some thoughts and questions about this idea.


Sandage - what about a smaller unit or is this what you had available? I see coleman makes a SportCat model meant for heating tents and other small spaces. The i isn't that big and it shouldn't take a lot of heat.

I'm thinking a more practical solution for commuters that don't travel with more than one passenger is to create a front/rear seperation curtain and only heat the front half of the car.

--Lucas

Like Dylan...I went electric.

  • Purchased: June 29th, 2012
  • Mileage on June 29th, 2013 - 25,431 km / 15,802 miles
  • Mileage on June 29th, 2014 - 51,286 km / 32,616 miles

List of Oil Spills: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_oil_spills

sandange
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Re: Practical solutions for extending cold weather range

Thu Sep 20, 2012 11:03 am

MLucas - What I like about this unit is that it has a fan incorporated in it with a switch and a nice finished appearance,
I also was worried about buying one too small.
Unfortunately it has only 3 positions Light, On & Off nothing in between


I'm thinking a more practical solution for commuters that don't travel with more than one passenger is to create a front/rear separation curtain and only heat the front half of the car.


We had an ICE van that we had installed a curtain behind the drivers seat trying to stay warm but visibility was compromised and it had little effect.

I did a small modification on the plywood base for when I want to store it in the cargo area - in case I need to use the full rear seat for passengers or cargo

Installed a piano hinge

Image ---- Image


Collapsed in Transport mode

Image ---- Image

In Transport With the Seat Up

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Last edited by sandange on Fri Sep 21, 2012 1:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Tesla Model 3 SR+, 2019
Previous EVs
Puey Bluey 2014 Miev
200,000 km , 124.000 miles.
Blackie - 2012 ES Miev 2 years - 67,000 km / (41,630 miles)
http://thecordstead.blogspot.ca/

Don
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Re: Practical solutions for extending cold weather range

Thu Sep 20, 2012 2:41 pm

MLucas wrote:Sandage - what about a smaller unit or is this what you had available? I see coleman makes a SportCat model meant for heating tents and other small spaces. The i isn't that big and it shouldn't take a lot of heat
I don't think the 3,000 BTU unit he bought will be too large . . . . if anything, it may prove to be a bit small and he may have to use the car's heater to go along with it. There are 3.4 BTU's to a watt of electricity. Those 120 volt, 1450 watt household heaters are usually rated at about 5,200 BTU's, and the car's heater is 5KW, so it should put out around 17,000 BTU's running full blast . . . . the little Coleman 3,000 BTU unit seems pretty paltry by comparison

If it's a cold day, he won't be needing to turn it down

Don
2012 iMiEV SE Premium, White
2012 iMiEV SE, White
2017 Chevy Volt Premier
2014 Ford Transit Connect XLT SWB wagon, 14,000 miles
1979 Honda CBX six into six

DonDakin
Posts: 387
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2012 7:10 pm
Location: Montreal Quebec.....

Re: Practical solutions for extending cold weather range

Thu Sep 20, 2012 3:44 pm

Last night I left a friends house at 10:00 PM it was 9 Deg C and I had 93 KM left on the RR. It was cold car was outside 4 hours in that falling temp. I drove home onthe highway at 90-100 km. Turned on the heat full blast RR dropped to 47 but I left it on to heat things up. Was not too bad but heat was not stellar. I am half way thru insulating the heating system. Got home fine turned off the heat and RR when back up to 67. I have to get used to understanding the RR guage and not overreacting to it.

Question for Sandage, does your heater fog up the windows ?

I'd like to know how that is going.

Don....

sandange
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Re: Practical solutions for extending cold weather range

Thu Sep 20, 2012 4:57 pm

Question for Sandage, does your heater fog up the windows ?


I haven't had a chance to give it a good run yet, waiting for cooler temperatures.
I did fire it up for about 5 minutes with it installed in the car to make sure that it was a safe distance from anything flammable, (seat material, door panels etc) all is good.

First impression is that it gave off a reasonable amount of heat

It takes about 10 minutes for the heater to reach max operating temperature - haven't gone there yet

I'll give it a good run once temperatures get below 32F - 0c and post my findings
Tesla Model 3 SR+, 2019
Previous EVs
Puey Bluey 2014 Miev
200,000 km , 124.000 miles.
Blackie - 2012 ES Miev 2 years - 67,000 km / (41,630 miles)
http://thecordstead.blogspot.ca/

MLucas
Posts: 833
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2012 8:52 am
Location: Niagara on the Lake, Ontario, Canada

Re: Practical solutions for extending cold weather range

Mon Sep 24, 2012 10:21 am

Here is my take on LowRacer's door panel insulation process. I used reflective barrier insulation on the doors with foil tape. I started by taking the door panel off, very simple remove the screws in the door handle, the arm rest and the one in the corner of the door. Then just work your fingers around the base of the door panel and pull firmly, the panel will unsnap from the door. Then lift the panel from the top of the door frame, before going to far disconnect the electrical connection and the cables that operate the handle and the lock. All very easy. I then followed LowRacer's tip of covering all of the holes in the plastic - first I went around the entire clear plastic and pressed on the black goop that holds in place. I found a lot of gaps where it wasn't pressed down very hard. Then I covered the holes with red tuck tape - around the cables and the wire bundle and whereever else I found a gap. Then I fitted the silver reflective barrier to the door, sealed with silver foil tape and refitted the door panel. Takes about 20 - 30 minutes a door. I find it a bit quieter and warmer inside but that could be just my imagination, no scientific test have been conducted on the efficacy of this remedy. Next I want to insulate the roof - its bare bones up there and could use a layer of this reflective barrier. Note 1: on the rear doors there is some hip protection that you'll need to make a cutout for and seal, see the pictures below. Note 2: I did not tape around the speakers the way LowRacer did. I saw what looked like air channels in the side of the speaker and did not want to reduce the efficiency of my front only speakers by covering these.

Link to the reflective barrier at HomeDepot: http://www.homedepot.com/Building-Materials-Insulation-Radiant-Barrier/h_d1/N-5yc1vZbedf/R-100020855/h_d2/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10053&langId=-1&storeId=10051

Image

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Like Dylan...I went electric.

  • Purchased: June 29th, 2012
  • Mileage on June 29th, 2013 - 25,431 km / 15,802 miles
  • Mileage on June 29th, 2014 - 51,286 km / 32,616 miles

List of Oil Spills: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_oil_spills

sandange
Posts: 907
Joined: Thu Jul 05, 2012 2:21 am
Location: Quebec, Canada
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Re: Practical solutions for extending cold weather range

Mon Sep 24, 2012 5:34 pm

MLucas

That's the same material I would use if I go that route with the doors.
Let us know how you think it performs when it gets cool out.
Tesla Model 3 SR+, 2019
Previous EVs
Puey Bluey 2014 Miev
200,000 km , 124.000 miles.
Blackie - 2012 ES Miev 2 years - 67,000 km / (41,630 miles)
http://thecordstead.blogspot.ca/

fjpod
Posts: 529
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2012 2:31 am
Location: NYC

Re: Practical solutions for extending cold weather range

Tue Sep 25, 2012 5:15 am

I hate to be negative about this insulation issue...

The car has a lot of glass, and the roof, and a lot of doorseals. If you have the heat on inside, most of it is going to be lost there. If you don't really have the heat on, the insulation is useless...you're just keeping the cold inside...but not really. The R value of thin insulation like that is almost useless. If anything it is supposed to be reflective, but it is buried in the car door.

Best way to heat the car?? Keep it in the sunshine. Second best maybe to run the batteries hard so they get warm and heat the cabin above.

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