tonymil
Posts: 274
Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2012 6:50 am
Location: Latham, NY

Re: Practical solutions for extending cold weather range

Wed Apr 18, 2012 6:22 pm

How about this as a way to extend cold weather range?

http://www.amazon.com/Trillium-Cozy2-He ... CH5BSO69KP

sandange
Posts: 904
Joined: Thu Jul 05, 2012 2:21 am
Location: Quebec, Canada
Contact: Website

Re: Practical solutions for extending cold weather range

Mon Jul 23, 2012 4:03 pm

I know that this discussion is a little out of season, but I have serious concerns with the Range and Comfort level for driving the Miev in extreme cold.
Specifically the Driving Range and the cabin comfort heating while driving.
Not concerned about the departure point or the destination as there are charging/ heating facilities at both ends.

We are located in Quebec, Canada and also experience -25C to -35C ( -13F to -31F) temperatures, sometimes for up to a week at a time. -15C to -20c are very common winter temperatures.

CHAdeMO I was wondering if you or any other members have come up with any solutions?

I often Mcgivir things to try and get a solution
For those few extreme conditions I have been considering using something like this,

http://www.campingworld.com/shopping/pr ... eater/7729

It would be mounted on a stable platform with a protective perimeter wire fence,
in the storage trunk area with one rear seat folded down for air circulation

Suggestions?
Puey Bluey 2014 Miev
180,xxx miles, 190,xxx km
Previous EVs
Blackie - 2012 ES Miev 2 years - 67,000 km / (41,630 miles)
Total Electric miles driven 221,630 miles (257,000 km)
http://thecordstead.blogspot.ca/

TaosEV
Posts: 68
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2012 4:06 pm

Re: Practical solutions for extending cold weather range

Mon Jul 23, 2012 4:45 pm

I have one of those small propane bottle heaters exactly like the one in your link. It puts out WAY too much heat for the interior cabin of an i, and it's difficult to modulate the heat. Also burning propane gives off CO2 and moisture, so interior climate could be a problem. I would seriously hesitate to drive a car with windows up for any significant distance with a propane heater. They have an auto-shutoff when oxygen levels get too low, but human beings also have an auto-shutoff when oxygen levels get too low.

Did you think about pre-heating your cabin before unplugging? Or even using a small electric heater in the cabin and unplugging it before departing? The biggest issue in heating or air conditioning is making the initial temperature change up or down. Once you're at an appropriate interior temp, it does not take much power to keep that temp stable.
=====
2012 iMiEV
2007 Zenn
1998 Honda EV+
1995 GM Impact prototype consumer test driver
... over 60,000 miles in electrics

sandange
Posts: 904
Joined: Thu Jul 05, 2012 2:21 am
Location: Quebec, Canada
Contact: Website

Re: Practical solutions for extending cold weather range

Mon Jul 23, 2012 7:32 pm

Thanks for sharing your experience with this model heater.
They do advertise the auto shut off for Tip Over & Low Oxygen Sensor. I think I should give it some consideration to size up (BTU) an appropriate size heater- maybe get a smaller unit – but I would rather have too much than not enough & have a heater out put control - however I could turn it off or crack a window if things get too hot.

I don’t know if you have experienced these extreme cold driving temperatures - Our Honda Fit would need to pre-warm (Autostart twice) 15 minutes each and then we could start driving, With the heater up on full, rear side windows would stay frozen for up to an hour, then the things would just start to get comfortable.
Generally, in these parts, these extreme temperatures make up 7-12 days of the year at most.
I would garage the Miev overnight on these days.
It's the siting at the train station (Pugged in) 12 hours ,at these temps that could make for a cold ride home.
Puey Bluey 2014 Miev
180,xxx miles, 190,xxx km
Previous EVs
Blackie - 2012 ES Miev 2 years - 67,000 km / (41,630 miles)
Total Electric miles driven 221,630 miles (257,000 km)
http://thecordstead.blogspot.ca/

tonymil
Posts: 274
Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2012 6:50 am
Location: Latham, NY

Re: Practical solutions for extending cold weather range

Mon Jul 23, 2012 8:14 pm

sandange wrote:We are located in Quebec, Canada and also experience -25C to -35C ( -13F to -31F) temperatures, sometimes for up to a week at a time. -15C to -20c are very common winter temperatures.


Ok, that beats Albany, NY. I've been thinking about this shortcoming of the i MiEV for a while because I hate the cold. These items would seem to help with your personal comfort:

http://store.activheat.com/

http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=202556545&storeId=10051&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&ci_src=14110944&ci_sku=202556545&cm_mmc=shopping%2d%5f%2dgooglebase%2d%5f%2dD25X%2d%5f%2d202556545

With a heated jacket and the heated seat - which warms up pretty quickly - you should be able to take some of the bite out of those crazy cold temperatures. Of course there would still be the issue of the cold cabin and condensation on the windows. If you're plugging in at the train station you can set the heater to come on at a specific time, but I think there's a short time limit on how long it will run so you need to plan carefully. As far as propane heaters, boy that's risky. Driving at night, you're already tired, a few wiffs of carbon monoxide might be all it takes.

So maybe you and BillThompsonMIEV should think about house-sharing. He lives with you in Quebec in the summer, you live with him in San Antonio in the winter. San Antonio is beautiful in the winter. :D

I have a feeling we'll be discussing this much more come November. Good luck.

Tony

MLucas
Posts: 833
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2012 8:52 am
Location: Niagara on the Lake, Ontario, Canada

Re: Practical solutions for extending cold weather range

Tue Jul 24, 2012 7:09 am

As an all weather motorcyclist, the way we keep warm is using heated gear! This stuff is toasty and doesn't take too much juice either because motorcycles don't have a lot of spare wattage or batteries.

I'm in the same boat during the winter time here in the Niagara region. I have the heated seat and the cold weather package as all i MiEV's do in Canada. But, the heater really cuts down on the range. I plan to garage my car in the winter, time the recharge to end just before leaving in the morning (warms the bat pack), preheat the interior and use my heated jacket liner from my motorcycle for heat. Still waiting to see if the garage will let me use their outlets so I can trickle charge and preheat for the ride home.

http://www.motosport.com/cruiser/tourmaster-heated-gear?pssource=true&psreferrer=http%253A%252F%252Fwww.bing.com%252Fsearch%253Fq%253Dtourmaster%252Bheated%252Bgear%2526src%253DIE-SearchBox%2526Form%253DIE8SRC&utm_campaign=%7Bad+group%7D&utm_source=Bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_content=%7Bad+headine%7D&utm_term=%7Bkeyword%7D&segment=badger

Glad to hear the car does well in the winter time. Probably works like the old Volkswagen Beetles did.

Like Dylan...I went electric.

  • Purchased: June 29th, 2012
  • Mileage on June 29th, 2013 - 25,431 km / 15,802 miles
  • Mileage on June 29th, 2014 - 51,286 km / 32,616 miles

List of Oil Spills: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_oil_spills

sandange
Posts: 904
Joined: Thu Jul 05, 2012 2:21 am
Location: Quebec, Canada
Contact: Website

Re: Practical solutions for extending cold weather range

Thu Jul 26, 2012 6:01 am

I just read up in the Tech posting on the Miev Climate control system

http://myimiev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=551

Great Information! Good to see that they are looking to evolve & improve the system.

However I still think I need to find a winter cabin heating solution for our extreme weather conditions

Mlucas – Good old VW Beetle - fond memories – had build a VW Dune Buggy – But that’s another lifetime ago

Thanks all for your heating accessories suggestions. I’m a seasoned long distance motorcycle rider and aware of the option for cold weather situations. We have enjoyed over 60,000 km on our present motorcycle, which happens to be our only other mode of transportation.

To Make a short story Long

Winter Commute
Let me paint a very possible scenario for my personal commuting situation. Not worst case

Car garaged 10C (50F) over night & fully charged
Leave the house 5:30 am – temps are –33 C (-27.5 F coldest time of day)

Weather is over cast - light blowing snow
Road conditions - snow covered 2”- 3”, hilly back roads are drivable but slippery & you need to drive slower
Your commute of 20 km (12.5 miles) takes 35 minutes with the defrost/heater/wipers on full

Park at train station and plug in level 2 charging station, go to work

You’re gone all day from 6:am to 7:00 pm
During the day, temps warmed up to –25C (-13F) but by 7:00 pm cooled back down to – 28C (-18.8F) & dropping.

Here are some points that are not clear to me

Car battery should be fully charged – if there hasn’t been a major power failure during the day
Or will it?

1) Does the extreme cold prevent the battery from getting fully charged as it draws power to keep itself from freezing?

2) Does using the remote to program the preheating option keep the battery from fully charging by drawing power?

One question I have for Hydro Quebec “Circuit Electrique” Charging station service (pay, card swipe).
Need to investigate this one
1) If there has been any power failure during the day, does the Charging Station resume charging when the power goes back on?


Scenario continued

It’s been snowing on & of all day and there has been some significant accumulation. This has made the hilly back roads too risky.
Now you need to take the highway that has been ploughed, but down to 1 lane & slow moving
This adds 6 km (3.73 miles) & 45 minutes
To get home you have a total of 26 km (16 miles) & 1:15 hrs commute with the defrost/heater/wipers on full to get home.

At his point things could be getting close to their maximum limits.
There fore my search to get a back up heating system to conserve the drive battery

Still looking for options
Puey Bluey 2014 Miev
180,xxx miles, 190,xxx km
Previous EVs
Blackie - 2012 ES Miev 2 years - 67,000 km / (41,630 miles)
Total Electric miles driven 221,630 miles (257,000 km)
http://thecordstead.blogspot.ca/

MLucas
Posts: 833
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2012 8:52 am
Location: Niagara on the Lake, Ontario, Canada

Re: Practical solutions for extending cold weather range

Thu Jul 26, 2012 8:50 am

Sandage - you are definitely going to test this i MiEV's cold weather capabilities to the maximum. We don't get nearly that bad here in the Niagara region. Last winter we didn't have hardly any snow at all. Our averages are around -10 to 0 in the winter time sometimes dipping lower.

I would definitely read up about the Cold Weather Package in your owners manual. I posted it here: http://myimiev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=477. It mentions how the system works and the cold weather charging restrictions.

As far as your questions go, this is what I know:
1.) The additional systems that run while the car is charging are run from the supply current not from the car battery. Like the A/C for pre-cool is run from your house current not the battery pack. The 'fuel gauge' will show full when you get in the car.
2.) No, same thing as #1. You'll get a full charge. The remote only works within range of the car, its not like the PhoneApps that the Volt and the Leaf have where you can schedule a preheat. You have to send your car the signal to preheat within 100m or 300 feet of the car, so you won't be able to preheat until you are back at the station. If you can park where you can see your car from the train, you might be able to signal it to preheat so it will be somewhat warm by the time you walk to the car.

For question #1 on the Circuit Electrique.
That I can't answer but the way the home EVSEs work, is they will send the car a signal that its ready to send the load again and the onboard charger will resume charging.

Like Dylan...I went electric.

  • Purchased: June 29th, 2012
  • Mileage on June 29th, 2013 - 25,431 km / 15,802 miles
  • Mileage on June 29th, 2014 - 51,286 km / 32,616 miles

List of Oil Spills: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_oil_spills

sandange
Posts: 904
Joined: Thu Jul 05, 2012 2:21 am
Location: Quebec, Canada
Contact: Website

Re: Practical solutions for extending cold weather range

Thu Jul 26, 2012 10:54 am

MLucas Thanks for your response & link & info,

Congrats on your new Miev, By the way, I see we both own the same model (Canadian Base Model) and
We both have the fastest color too.

The question about the Hydro Quebec "Circuit Electrique" Charge stations -
I should of made clearer as.....

If I had swiped my pay card & were charging,
Shortly after, there was a power failure for 5 seconds or more.- but now I've left to go to work.

When the power returns, would it continue charging or
would the charger think the session was over and require another swipe.

I've sent an email to them regarding this, and hope to get an answer soon.
Puey Bluey 2014 Miev
180,xxx miles, 190,xxx km
Previous EVs
Blackie - 2012 ES Miev 2 years - 67,000 km / (41,630 miles)
Total Electric miles driven 221,630 miles (257,000 km)
http://thecordstead.blogspot.ca/

MLucas
Posts: 833
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2012 8:52 am
Location: Niagara on the Lake, Ontario, Canada

Re: Practical solutions for extending cold weather range

Thu Jul 26, 2012 11:35 am

Good question about the charger. I haven't used a public charge station yet, as there basically arent' any around here. The Niagara region has yet to come into the 21st Century.

We have the Stealth i MiEV in bad-azz black. I got my windows tinted, too. It looks really good and saves me from having to run the A/C a lot.

These Canadian base models are really nice and well equipped compared to the US base model. I kind of like the way they are setup because it has everything I wanted without having to pay the premium price to get something I really wanted to have. All I really cared about was the CHaDEMO port (not sure why when there aren't any public charge stations here - maybe for future), the fog lights, and the cold weather package.

We'll have to compare notes this coming winter and see how the i MiEVs do. I have a long commute that I'm curious to know how the car will do.

Like Dylan...I went electric.

  • Purchased: June 29th, 2012
  • Mileage on June 29th, 2013 - 25,431 km / 15,802 miles
  • Mileage on June 29th, 2014 - 51,286 km / 32,616 miles

List of Oil Spills: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_oil_spills

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