So, in summary....

It's obvious from the threads that dominate this site that the Miev isn't suited for cold weather climates. I would heartily recommend the Miev for moderate climates - like encountered in Japan, California, etc. It reminds me of my old VW bug that basically didn't have a heating or defrost system. Owners did all kinds of crazy things to make driving it in winter more tolerable. Most fixes didn't work well either. It's sad to see cold climate owners struggle to make their Miev driveable. Accommodating to it's problems must be a downer instead of making their life better. I hope Mitsubishi is listening. Hate to see this model die because of inadequate engineering....

The iMiev is very driveable in cold weather and snow compared to other care...it's just that your range takes a big hit if you need a lot of heat and defrosting...but I think it holds the road better than my Prius.

With pre-heating the cabin, there is no problem with this car handling the cold weather. Its traction control works amazingly, even in the most slippery situations. I've never had a problem keeping the windows frost and fog-free.

psyflyjohn said:

It's sad to see cold climate owners struggle to make their Miev drivable.

Click to expand...

I enjoy driving the i-MiEV in cold weather. It's great to get in a preheated car first thing in the morning. Even without preheating the i-MiEV's electric heater produces heat quickly.

We're just looking for better ways to heat the car without losing any driving range. Actually, electric vehicle manufacturers are looking for better ways to heat their cars.

The ideas so far are:
Better insulation. (You wouldn't need to produce as much heat if the heat would stay in the car).
Fossil fuel heaters. (Using fossil fuels for heat is very efficient, especially compared to using fossil fuels for internal combustion engines.)
More efficient electric heaters. (Heat pumps and radiant heaters.)

IMO, it's really fun to drive in winter on white roads. When I need the whole range possible, I just use warm clothes and blanket for me and my passangers. Hot tea helps a lot too

Zelenec, I like your style. I also had no problem driving my Miev in Albany NY last winter. Of course it gets less range but I do less driving in the winter so it wasn't really an issue. I find that the seat heater makes a big difference and for those who regularly have passengers I would suggest buying plugin seat heaters for the passenger seats.

Kind of odd that someone living in San Diego CA is claiming to make a definitive statement about driving i Mievs in winter.

Thought I might chime in on this also.

The threads that have the most views that I see are the cold weather threads and the max range threads.
People are interested in these two aspects of EV's and the two are intertwined.

Saying that the iMiev is not good in the winter is true and false at the same time. It's pretty much the same thing as saying Ev's are not good overall cars. It really depends on how you see it and what your needs are.
If you want a warm winter car that you can drive for hours on end in a very cold winter then any EV even a
Model S just won't cut it. If you want or need unlimited heat for comfort then forget about an EV in Winter.

But if you can live with the reduced range and you have an indoor garage that is lightly heated then the iMiev will just keep on truckin right thru even the coldest of days. Of course it needs TLC in the winter and needs to be protected. You can't just park it and cold soak it unplugged to -40 for a month at the airport. Who knows maybe you can.... I haven't tried that yet.

One things for sure a gas or desel webasto type heater would be the best range extender. It's small, light and burns a small amount of fuel. If you can direct heat to the battery which is easy in iMiev's equipped with the battery heater (using the trick that siai47 mentions) then you can warm the battery and the cabin with gas and probably only loose range due to road conditions if you manage to preheat the battery to summer temps.
For me cars sold in cold climates should have this as a "winter range extender option" I know it's not totally green but it's about as green as you can be before your toes turn blue. Better a little less green in the car then a little more blue in the toes....

It's the most cost effective way to solve the entire EV in winter problem if reduced range causes you grief.


But if you can live with the reduced range ie. your commute is short or you have lot's of charging that is practical for you to use then the iMiev is totally usable in the winter. If you preheat it in a garage then it's way more comfortable then getting into a frozen solid ICE car that was outside all night and takes 15 minutes
to warm up.

Personally I made it thru last winter with only L1 charging. I never took my Ice car to work (25 Km round trip) and the iMiev never failed to deliver even at -25 Deg C.
This winter I have L2 also so I anticipate I'll be using more electric heat and more L2 charging and of course my beloved heated insoles. I'll be sure to post about the ins and outs of making thru Jan and Feb.

So I would say that if you are going to go the EV route then winter range is just another detail to work into the planning. As an EV driver your naturally a range planner so winter is probably already on your radar.

Don......

Yep, there's pros n cons to an EV in winter and a combustion heater could likely make up for most of the cons, but I'm loving the electrical preheat. What other car can you safely remote start in an attached and enclosed, but unheated garage?

tonymil said:

Zelenec, I like your style. I also had no problem driving my Miev in Albany NY last winter. Of course it gets less range but I do less driving in the winter so it wasn't really an issue. I find that the seat heater makes a big difference and for those who regularly have passengers I would suggest buying plugin seat heaters for the passenger seats.

Kind of odd that someone living in San Diego CA is claiming to make a definitive statement about driving i Mievs in winter.

Click to expand...

Hey Tony it was nice meeting you at our EV Plug In day in Latham. I'm trying to get an idea and since you are in my location what did your range dip down to last winter? When I fully charge now my estimated range indicator says approx 65 - 70 miles. What can I expect to see for this range in the winter months? How is your new battery working out? Were you able to still drive the vehicle while Mitsubishi was building your new battery pack?
Glenn

I think psyflyjohn has been around these parts long enough to know that the i-MiEV is fine in the winter, probably just trying to pick up the postings and get some more interesting feedback. :lol:

EVs don't have the plethora of waste heat like an ICE so they do have a disadvantage in winter. But, most of us are driving EVs for other ideals beyond creature comforts. This is a hot topic on these EV forums because it is one of the big hurdles we have to figure out for mass EV adoption. Most people won't put up with this, but we are on the bleeding and freezing edge - early adopters per se. I'm making some modifications to my EV to help with the heating problems and to use less of the supplied heater that takes a lot of power. I'll see how it goes, I'm hoping my radiant heating ideas work out and I'll be a bit more comfortable this year. As far as the drive, this EV is great in the snow and ice - better than all of my front-wheel drive cars of the past including my Nissan Versa. This car sticks like glue and where it doesn't the ASC kicks in and keeps me on track. Its a lot of fun to throw this car into a skid and watch the computer sort it out.

gmarcucio said:

Hey Tony it was nice meeting you at our EV Plug In day in Latham. I'm trying to get an idea and since you are in my location what did your range dip down to last winter? When I fully charge now my estimated range indicator says approx 65 - 70 miles. What can I expect to see for this range in the winter months? How is your new battery working out? Were you able to still drive the vehicle while Mitsubishi was building your new battery pack?
Glenn

Click to expand...

Hi Glenn, it was a pleasure meeting you too. I'm also interested in seeing how my MiEv does this winter. Last winter I had wrapped the heater in insulation but I was told they had to remove most of that to install the new battery. I'm too lazy to go through all that work again so I'll live with what I have. During the summer my range meter would generally be in the high 70's/low to mid 80's on a full charge. I almost never use the air conditioner but I do lot's of driving over 40 mph. During last winter I saw my range remaining on a full charge drop to the mid 50's when I had the heater running full blast (temp on hot, fan on high, but no "max"). But I should give you an explanation of how I drove the car and used the heater so that my experience can be put in context.

First, I charged the car every night with an L2 charger and always preheated the car on cold days. Preheating is great. I would then get in my car, lower the heat setting to a little above neutral and lower the fan to a little above off. I also bought a heated vest and used that most days as well. With the vest, the seat heater on, the car preheated and the heat kept on but very low, I was comfortable even on our coldest mornings here in Albany. I should add that I hate being cold so I probably kept myself warmer than most people would find necessary. I should also add that I commute alone so I had no need to worry about passenger comfort.

Unfortunately I did not keep track of how many bars I lost on my drive to work. It was more than I lost in summer but I don't think it was much more. As for the evening commute, I have no place to plug in at work so i could not recharge or preheat the car at work. I would wear my heated vest from my office to my parking lot so that by the time I got in my car the vest was nice and toasty. I would put the heater on high (but not max) and would put the fan on high and put the car heater on. After a very short time the temp would get comfortable and I'd lower the temp and fan as I did on my drive in.

My commute is only 15 miles round trip and I run errands almost every day so I was probably traveling 25 miles a day without any problem in the winter. But I also avoided using the car for any long trips. I did notice that things like slippery roads, running the radio, using headlights and wipers all impacted range and with the heater dropping range quickly it seemed those things had more impact than in summer.

The other issue is fogged up windows. My method of defogging the windows was to set the control on defrost, set the heater temp on high, put the fan on high and turn on the a/c. The combination of warm air and the de-humidifier from the a/c defogged the windows quickly. It also made the range drop down dramatically while this was all running. But as soon as possible I would put all the setting back to where they were before. After a while the range would come back up. If you do this, make sure the heater has already warmed up first, otherwise you're sending cold air to the windows which is a much slower process. I also keep a car polishing rag in my car and would sometimes use that rather than the heat-a/c to clear the windows.

Sounds like a lot of work and for anyone who thinks an electric car should behave like a gas car, it is a lot of work. But I knew going in that I would have to make sacrifices in the winter. I even bought a portable catalytic propane heater just in case but never felt compelled to use it. As for traction in snow, no problems. I didn't buy snow tires and just used the tires that came with the car. The MiEv did fine. I think it's small size and it's very good weight distribution help keep the car from getting stuck or losing grip.

Stay in touch Glenn and let me know how you make out.

Tony

Tony, your cold weather experience seems to be almost identical to what I am expecting for my first winter with my i-MiEV here in the Chicago suburbs. The only difference between us is that my round-trip commute is exactly double yours, and I DO have to worry about passengers, but only for the first quarter of the commute. I look forward to hearing what all you go through and do to maintain comfort throughout the winter.