Just closed deal over the phone - hopefully pickup tomorrow

Hello everybody!
So psyched for a new avenue away from the tiresome internal combustion typical maintenance and fueling up.
I was looking into the new agreement that Ford has with a Canadian hydrogen cell company to outfit new Ford trucks at the KY plant with this alternative style power plant, literally tripped over the $69/mth or $169/mth Mitsu lease thing in a little ad on the side bar of the Hydrogen page I was on, and here I am a few weeks later buying the I-MiEV!
Missed out on the extra $5k that Mitsu was putting down for a month or so there, but the dealer gathered up a few employee discount tickets (if I understand that correctly) and brought the price down on a loaded SE from $35k to $169/mth and I get to walk away from a 16yr old V8. (still a great car but tired of it)

Looking forward to much interaction here! Can't wait to start investigating mods like LED replacements etc.

Ron

Ron, congratulations!

Better put in some fuel stabilizer into your ICE cars, as they will start growing cobwebs...

Congrats!! Welcome to the forum . . . . glad you're here

rdct said:

. . . . and here I am a few weeks later buying the I-MiEV!

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So . . . . you 'bought' it, or you leased it?

. . . . brought the price down on a loaded SE from $35k to $169/mth

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I guess the price went down . . . . unless the $169 per month is for more than 200 months

I'm guessing you didn't buy it, but maybe got a great deal on a lease? How much down, and $169/mo for how long? How many mods can you do to a leased vehicle?

Don

@rtct: Welcome to the party!

The $169/month lease ($0 down) sounds about right for the SE model. The earlier-mentioned $69 lease was for the ES model which -- according to the finance guy -- had a lower depreciation amount than the SE. Sounded like bulls--t to me, but it took the lease from $199/month to $76/month for me.

Don - yes that's a lease. Payments like that on a purchase would be a mortgage :lol:
Handed in our 16yr old car = $1500 down
2yr term
We inquired about 3 thinking maybe we'll like this and it will put us closer to another election promise of new incentives, but the payments from 2 yrs to 3 yrs were significantly higher due to depreciation apparently.
I asked that same question about mods if we turn it back in.
Haven't gone over the details yet but the dealer asked if I wanted him to order the woody appliqués for it when I mentioned that I saw that one online.
I guess I'll find out the detailed restrictions tomorrow.

On that note, being in New England I'll need heat and have been reading up on the woes of that.
Haven't searched yet to see if anyone has installed a larger version of the standard wet cell up front and what implications that would have.

A larger capacity 12 volt battery wouldn't gain you much, if anything. The 12 volt system is powered by a DC to DC converter from the 330 volt traction battery. The converter can provide up to 80 amps, similar in most respects to the alternator in an ICE. The 12 volt battery runs the radio and other accessories when the key switch is off (just like in an ICE) but once you switch the key on, everything is powered by the 330 volt battery. A decent (but still marginal) amount of heat costs you about 25 to 35% of the normal range of the car. Fortunately, the A/C system uses less energy

If you were buying the car, the 'hot ticket' for improving the heating system is installing a kerosene or diesel fired heater which installs in the warm water loop between the stock heater and the radiator inside the car - Near instant heat which doesn't cost you any range penalty. These cars are popular in Norway and other cold climates and this is how they modify the car for improved heating - Cost is around $2K

I'm guessing your 16 year old V-8 was the Town Car? What a change . . . . for the better!! :mrgreen:

Don

Don said:

I'm guessing you didn't buy it, but maybe got a great deal on a lease? How much down, and $169/mo for how long?

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...and how much will it cost to buy the car when the lease ends? Answers to all those questions are derived from "what's the dealer being paid for the car?"

These cheap lease deals for more or less full-priced i-MiEVs continue to puzzle me. I understand how GM got Ally (nee GMAC) to eat those Volt leases (probably a lot of interbreeding and personal relationships there to trump cold-blooded calculation), but a lease deal that assumes huge residual value on an i-MiEV is just plain nuts on the part of the banks. These guys are going to take it in the neck when those cars come off lease and can't even be sold for $15k, much less the >$20k residuals assumed by the leases I've seen. Don't get me wrong - they're a sweet deal for the lessee, especially if you're more afraid of owning an obsolete EV in a couple of years than not being able to find any new EV you like at that time.

Terms weren't quite so good when I bought back in September, and at that time my concerns were just the opposite of the above - I was (and am) afraid that come 2015 PHEVs may come to dominate the plug-in scene and we'll be on the back-side of a BEV boomlet temporarily driven by federal incentives and California regs. I don't think BEVs will disappear altogether (though that is a real risk), but it's very possible that there will not be a decent <$25k option on the table, as the U.S. EV market is driven toward more amenities and longer ranges (i.e., "Tesla Jr." or "Leaf Plus"). Who can look at the i-MiEV's reception and not anticipate such a trend?

The number of people who still utter such tripe as "Give me a car with 250 mile range that I can charge from empty as fast as filling a tank of gas" is just mind-boggling (and if you don't understand why that's tripe, it's time to do some homework). This, along with the gullibility and group-think of the automotive press, is why the great hydrogen fuel cell scam has returned to "post-petroleum" discussions. Yes, I said SCAM - you show me a fuel cell car for the price of an EV that I can power as conveniently as an EV and I'll change my mind, but I'm not holding my breath, since I've heard exactly nobody propose running a hydrogen line to my house.

Welcome to the forum. Crongrats on your iMiev. It is a small car but I am sure you will love it.

Congrats! But if you are coming out of a lincoln might be tight for you!

The MiEV does well in the cold, albeit with loss of range as mentioned. We've had some cold temps here in Michigan, -2F, ran the heat full blast and stayed warm enough. I was chuckling when passing up cars that were steaming and fan belts squealing. Anyway, Vike, I agree with you in your post about leasing and residual value. I leased, 3 years and 30,000 miles, and residual value is around $20,000. No thanks, I'll sign up for another demo vehicle lease in 2015. Chevy, Fiat, Nissan will all have improved models by then (and hopefully Mitsubishi).

Man I planned on getting on here Saturday after I brought her home but the whole weekend got away from me.
Got lots to ask already.
Talk to everybody in a couple days

Loving it but boy its weird after you turn that key - keep thinking I'm forgetting something before I can leave! :mrgreen:

rdct said:

Loving it but boy its weird after you turn that key - keep thinking I'm forgetting something before I can leave! :mrgreen:

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Wait until you forget to unplug it and then nothing does happen.

:lol: I've only done that once so far. My mother had to drive the car and called me to ask why the car wasn't moving. The first thing I asked was if the charger was still attached to the car. She remembered to remove that, but didn't hold the key in the "startup" position long enough -- no "Ready" light on the dash.

I'll admit to doing it twice. Feeling like a dolt sitting in my driveway, trying to figure out why my car won't turn on.

Just be grateful there's an interlock on the i that prevents you from driving away with the car plugged in.
A quick story:
I own a Commuta- car (City Car) purchased in 1981. That car had an interlock that prevented you from driving away when the plug (extension cord) was attached to the car... as long as the other end was still plugged into the wall outlet..
One day I started to drive off with the plug still attached to the car and almost pulled a portable meter box (was providing information to the utility company) thru the window where the extension cord was running because I had unplugged the cord at the house wall outlet therefore preventing the interlock from working.
Needless to say, that only happened once.
Silver, 2012 ES with quick charge port. Three weeks old.

Lithim said:

Just be grateful there's an interlock on the i that prevents you from driving away with the car plugged in.

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Very grateful, sure beats pulling a $900 L2 EVSE off the wall and down the street.

I saw the Turtle today :shock:
I'll tell you, its not like "seeing the light" at the pearly gates; in fact it is the exact opposite.
The turtle is not your friend.... :twisted:

I have not had a decent full charge on 110v since I picked it up last Saturday, and I don't want to keep making these halfway charges due to battery life.
I had 31 miles on the lie-o-meter when I left this morning.
Had to leave work at lunch and square up with the dealer on the trade in.
22 miles one way there.
I call ahead and ask them to make sure the charger is available so I can can squeeze a bit in while we're finishing paperwork.
They were great, ran out and backed me in when they saw me pull up, plugged me in and we took care of business.
Little small talk, hung around for about 20mins.
I go out and I have only 3 more miles than what I pulled in with.
13 total.
I need 19.5 miles if I take the back road instead of hwy.
Crap. Thought the 220 would do me better in 20mins but I guess that's a little optimistic.
I go back in, more chit chat, mess around with the remote with a salesman.
Go back out in another 15 mins, the wall charger is blinking Fault.
Crap again.
Promised I'd be back to work shortly. 2hrs 45mins later I show up back at work with Mr Turtle on the dash.
It felt like I waited forever to make 10 miles turn into 19.
Yes I left with 19 showing when I knew I needed more.
I drove that thing like a brake regenerating God.
I had 1 mile to go on the meter when I had one mile to go on the road.
Pulled it into a shipping bay and plugged it in. Was staying late anyway to make up time so ended up with +8 to make it home.
Will only be plugged in tonight for 9 hrs on 110 though.
That 220 box can't get here soon enough!

rdct said:

I saw the Turtle today :shock:
I'll tell you, its not like "seeing the light" at the pearly gates; in fact it is the exact opposite.
. . .
That 220 box can't get here soon enough!

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OK, this was a scary post, one worthy of an ICE troll (which I'm sure rdct is not). Seriously, dude, 110 was never going to cut it for you. And yes, 220 charging is (roughly) 10 miles per hour of charge time - so 3 miles after 20 mins. is just about right. Don't panic, just start planning - what is hard to fix is that we don't have 100-mile range and it takes a while to replenish it. I hope you weren't deceived by all the opportunity charging "I can drive 100 miles a day easy" happy talk we sometimes see here. The car works fine, but you do have to manage your power, by which I mean on purpose.

A couple of other things you really need to get clear:

- Don't call your RR readout a "lie-o-meter" - you're not driving a Leaf. It works better than most things in life, and I've found I can rely on it.

- The turtle is VERY VERY BAD. Don't run the battery that low - it will permanently cut a notch out of its capacity every time you do it. Not much, but it adds up. You wanna make a habit of taking 20 mile trips with 19 mi. RR on the dash, you may as well resign yourself to being one unhappy EV owner.

- Brake regenerating is not God's work. It's a losing proposition that just helps you lose less than friction braking. When desperate to maximize range, the goal is NO braking. If you can coast, coast. Doing a little light braking just to "get some regen" will cost you more speed than the power you recover - DON'T DO IT.

More experienced longer-distance drivers, please weigh in. I just drive mine without paying too much attention because I have a very short commute and live in a compact town, so I don't often exercise the limits. My biggest problem so far has been remembering to limit charging so that it doesn't spend too much time sitting around at 90% SOC. All that said, I've read a lot about the car's behavior and paid close attention to what I see happening on those occasions when I do have to run it out (the quarterly re-calibrate, f'rinstance), and reading this little story made me squirm in my seat.

Vike - rdct's experience is not all that bad. There are some of us that do stretch the i's limits occasionally, and more so than some on this forum. The turtle is actually your friend, it's telling you are close to running out and start taking steps to prepare for that event. The red battery light is actually the one you want to avoid. I've once driven 15 kilometers on turtle without seeing the red battery light, I don't make a habit of it but it happened.

rdct's experience is mostly what we experience when we first get the car and learn how to use it. He's learned that the L1 charger is not going to work for him, his daily use exceeds its practicality. rdct will need to get an L2 installed and plan accordingly then the i will work just fine for him. He has the ability to charge at work, a huge bonus - his L1 will work for top up at the office. Then at home he can get a full charge.

I charge up every day and use the office top up and have more than plenty of range. Like I've heard it mention before, 'Just keep it swinging' is about the best advice. Don't let it sit too long at bottom or top and store it at the middle of the range.

rdct - you'll see the turtle again, it will happen - don't fret. It's much like your old gas car's low fuel light. You always seem to make it home or find a gas station. If you don't have a GPS or a phone with GPS, get one - its a great tool for figuring out what your next move is going to be. Turn off all accessories, slow your speed way down and follow routes that have the best coasting opportunities.

Great feedback from everyone.
There are comments on the first page of this thread that I just haven't had time to respond to yet but I appreciate it all, positive or constructive.

Allow me to set a tone here for myself; I'm laughing and smiling all the way thru my experiences.
I was trying to get people to laugh with me not cringe.
I have a horrible habit of taking everything I do to test the limits.
I thought yesterday was an amusing experience that went well in the end.
No call to AAA for a gallon of electricity.
My personality is to joke about most everything with a hint of sarcasm which doesn't always work well in text.

Planning?
Yesterday wasn't as much of a planning issue as it was getting caught up in a bad sequence of events.
I'm working 60-70hrs a week, don't have my level 2 installed yet, and am not home enough hrs to sleep and recharge on 110.
The plans are in place but not complete yet.

My background is a full college apprenticeship and certificate in machining.
However I majored in architecture and automotive throughout high school.
I lost my architecture scholarship - because I was always joking around and bugging the students who were taking it seriously and struggling. I should have fought that but I was hurt and embarrassed so I let it go.
I turned down a nomination for an entrance exam into a GM sponsored college program leading into engineering - I thought it was to become a mechanic because of the awards that I had won thru school which led me to the nomination.

That said, I absolutely enjoy learning new things.
This whole EV thing is my next new adventure and I'm loving it.
I've done big SUV's ( is that a swear word on here?), snowmobile racing etc.
Last summer I bought a 250cc scooter and tweaked that to get over 80mpg.
Slowly our stable of sheik-supporting vehicles is morphing into a more wallet friendly corral.

Please just roll your eyes if you are questioning my tone, because I can assure you there's a smile on my face while I'm pecking this out.

On the meter - I apologize because we call it the lie-o-meter in our ICE vehicles, particularly the new Sonata.
In fact I was completely impressed at testing the miev's accuracy to the limit yesterday.
I did that nail biter with everything off and used my cell for GPS to compare the EV's reading.
Like I quoted, 1 mile left was in fact 1 mile left.
The turtle came on as I came up to the driveway at work.
Like coasting up to the pumps which I have done 3 times.

I'm waiting on my quote to get the level 2 box installed.
That's my real dilemma.
I had no intention of trying to do this from 110 though I did figure that slow charge would be the way to go on weekends that allow me the time.
Coincidentally I left it at home today on 110 since I got home at 10pm last night
This will likely be its first full charge since I picked it up on the weekend.

I've got a 40 mile run tomorrow so I'm going to be smiling all the way.
Let me tell you filling the Excursion up for camping trips literally sucks the fun out of it.
We've owned that for 12yrs.
Putting $190 in the tank is not my bag anymore.

On the coasting vs braking for regen; actually one of the bigger questions I wanted to ask.
My initial naive thoughts were to try and get charge back in that cell, but it did in fact feel prohibitive to my needs.
Yes, besides finding it awkward to maintain speed, it just felt like all pain no gain.
I was hoping I could ask without sounding like a complete idiot, is it ok to put it in neutral down hills?
I haven't seen anything yet on the design of the drivetrain to understand how that would affect it.

BTW though there isn't much torque for maintaining 75mph up larger New England grades, I am impressed at the overall performance on the hwy.
I want a vinyl wrap around on the sides to let people know they're being passed by an EV.
Gets lots of looks but most people figure it's a Dumb (smart) Car.

With only a couple days on the car, I'm honestly finding that D is most often the best.
Econo often requires more throttle and pulls the needle the wrong way.
Econo seems only suitable for me in town below 40mph.
And I caught myself forgetting to shift back to D at a stop and panicking when I pulled into traffic.
I wish the gear selector on the dash had a distinct color for the position you are in.
Not enough contrast for a quick glance.
Or just leave it in D I guess.

What battery runs the steering?