Cruise Control

Don,

Good some actual facts about cruise control! Article called 16 ways to save energy...I agree with its basic observation but there are two things to consider:

1. That many people will not care about the "savings" in miles and just want to nicety of having CC. Period. It should be a choice, but the person should know that that choice CAN reduce his range between 5 and 10%.
2. Cruise control is NOT designed for CITY driving, but HIGHWAY driving (thus the name CRUISE control). Most highways that have speed limits of 60-65 MPH are highways that have very little elevation on them and they generally are very flat. That is where CC would be used. I would use it when I could, but if I had to be driving on a hilly area then that would change. There would be times when it could be used and perhaps should be used. Other car companies have it and I am sure Mitsubishi will offer it in the future to stay competitive.

If they do not offer it so be it. I can live without it, but having used it on ICE vehicles. One might use it in an EV when driving at a constant speed for highway stretches (10-20 Miles). Bottom line is that every driver may or may not want or use it. Then again once you had it in your EV you may find it is awkward and not even use it. Each to his own!

Except for maybe Kansas, I would disagree that highways are generally flat with very little gain or loss of elevation.

If you have a heavy foot and you drive to save time, then cruise control will increase mileage. If you are an experienced hypermiler, it will decrease mileage. YMMV, of course.

mievsolar said:

Don,

Good some actual facts about cruise control! Article called 16 ways to save energy...I agree with its basic observation but there are two things to consider:

1. That many people will not care about the "savings" in miles and just want to nicety of having CC. Period. It should be a choice . . . .

Click to expand...

I agree - It should

None of my comments were against the concept of CC. Personally I love it and I've mentioned before that I use it all the time when driving my other cars - I went to the trouble of installing FACTORY CC in my Mazda Miata which did not come with it and retrofitting it into the car was no small job!

My comments were aimed specifically at your claim that "it ALWAYS saves energy. Period." It doesn't . . . . it's one more convenience that we pay for with incresed energy consumption. True, it does (or would) save SOME people mileage and you've 'met' some of those folks out on the freeways, constantly varying their speed from about 55 MPH to 75 MPH - They're a real pain to be around, as we all know and if THEY would switch on the CC, they would save gas and we'd all love them for it!

I think it all boils down to the fact that we bought a pretty high tech, econobox of an electric vehicle which came with most of the things it needed to make it perform as well as possible, but with few frills so as to keep the price as low as possible. Like Joe, I've come to believe that they did go a bit overboard trying to make it drive as much like a conventional ICE powered car as they could. It's an EV and most of us quickly learn to drive it much differently than the way we used to zip around in our gas wasting cars and I think they could have given us fewer ICE features and a bit more 'control' on the EV side of things. We did get the Eco mode and the regenerative braking mode, but they could have made them easier to change between than constantly fiddling with the very ICE like 'shifter' . . . . which doesn't really 'shift' anything anyway

Cruise would have been a nice option, and you're probably right - It should have been offered either as an option, or maybe included in the premium package which has lots of other things that an econobox doesn't really 'need' . . . . but as much as I love it in my other cars, I honestly doubt it would get much use in this car - The way I've learned to drive it, CC just doesn't fit in very well. We have few absolutely flat roads of more than a mile or two around here and even those do have an overpass built into them every so often

If cruise and some of the other features which were really designed more for comfort irrespective of energy use are really important to you, you can always look into buying a Leaf . . . . it has an extra 8Kw of battery so opting to favor convenience over battery power might not be as important

Don

I test drove a Leaf and would have had to wait over 4 months for one, plus the MPGe was not as high as the MiEV. I called the Mitsubishi dealer and they had 6 MiEV's available. I was amazed. I bough one after the test drive.

I have owned 2 other 100% EV's and this car is by far the most sophisticated EV I have driven. I believe the EV has finally "arrived" and there is no turning back. If Iran is attached by you know who then I believe oil prices will sky rocket and that people will truly start to embrace EV's because at $5 or $6 a gallon EV's will be to compelling to ignore any longer and by them we will have well over 100 pure EV's to chose from. Then toss in a affordable or Zero down solar electric charging station and now you have FREE fuel for your EV for LIFE. Tuff to beat!

Let us put this one to rest and agree that CC could be added as an option for those who want it with the reminder that CC could reduce your range just like running your AC or Heater for long periods. Agreed?

One interesting thing we have found is that we thought we would be using the AC like we did in our Toyota Echo, but am finding out that without the heat generated by the ICE in a ICE car that that there is very little need for AC! In fact even when it is 90+ degrees outside (in Colorado) the inside stays pretty cool and no need to turn on the AC. Amazing!

+1

Cruise control was on my list of wants until I actually started driving my new i-MiEV. I found that even though half my driving is on the highway, I never missed cruise control. To me, it's like a game when you drive, using E mode, D mode and B mode -- I'm always checking out the green and blue indicators and shifting into E and B to optimize the efficiency of my daily commute. While the thought of CC is a good one, I myself would probably never use it.

I miss cruise control.

It saves on speeding fines mostly.... otherwise I drive at what I think is safe speed for the road.... doesn't always agree with road signs though. I might use it for as little a 1km of 60kmph road that I know often has speed cameras. My attention span is short you see.

I agree that some 'try hard' cruise controls 'play' with the throttle too much and this can be wasteful in ICE and EV.
An EV cruise control needs to be more relaxed a bit like the C mode is.

Aftermarket CC on ebay is $200-$300 and not all versions are vacuum operated dashpot, although there is vac for power brakes on imiev anyway that could be used ?
Some are mechanical pull cable that could operate the accelerator pedal directly and so fly by wire throttle does not need to be tapped into. Speed signal can come from magnets fitted to a wheel.

Has anyone fitted CC ? tell us about it !

I, too, miss cruise control and would like to have the option in my Meepster. While others may decry it as a superfluous expense, I would gladly pay extra for the option, but only if it met one of my (as yet) unattainable conditions.

I want CC on my i-MiEV that maintains a specific power setting rather than a speed setting. I have noticed that on flat, level, even, straight roadways, maintaining the power needle at a specific point on the power gauge always results in the same speed. For example, in my Meepster at least, keeping the needle at the right end of the "O" in "Eco" in the green area results in a consistent 45 mph. Granted, if I keep the needle at that position as I go up a hill, the speed will drop and then climb again as I descend down the back side of the hill. However, that is exactly how I would prefer my CC to perform. And, in fact, it follows the oft-quoted advice from hypermilers of letting your speed drop a bit as you go uphill and regaining it on the downward side.

Would this style of CC be possible? Maintaining a constant power output rather than a constant speed setting? Maybe CC in future i-MiEVs can have the ability to switch between the two types of operating modes, power vs. speed.

RobbW said:

...I want CC on my i-MiEV that maintains a specific power setting rather than a speed setting...

Click to expand...

It's called a hand throttle. I have one on my Gen1 Insight and it merely pulls the accelerator pedal lever arm. It has a vernier control so I can precisely dial in the exact throttle position number (as displayed on my ScanGauge). It's dangerous because it does not have an automatic brake-actuated release, although hitting it's red button releases it instantly. Whereas it is wonderful on long highway trips, it's useless in city traffic - RobbW, in your Chicago traffic that is your iMiEV's venue, it beats me why you'd want any sort of CC.

JoeS said:

RobbW, in your Chicago traffic that is your iMiEV's venue, it beats me why you'd want any sort of CC.

Click to expand...

I don't live in Chicago proper, but in the very far western suburbs. Most of my driving in the Meepster is my daily work commute. I take back roads to avoid most of the heavier traffic. Several parts of my commute include long stretches of 45 mph roadway for which CC would be very useful. In general, I prefer to engage CC whenever possible to limit my speed in order to avoid unplanned meetings with local law enforcement. I have already received one speeding ticket in the i-MiEV (convoluted story that involved a jack@$$ teen punk in a rice burner that caused me to get a ticket). I would prefer to NOT receive any more tickets! CC helps me with that.

P.S. I have to be the only sorry sap in the Chicagoland area who gets a speeding ticket in a 100% EV. I can only IMAGINE the conversation when the officer radioed the stop back into dispatch!

I doubt anyone will make a 'constant energy' cruise control - It goes against the logic of having a cruise control, which is to maintain a steady speed

RobbW said:

However, that is exactly how I would prefer my CC to perform. And, in fact, it follows the oft-quoted advice from hypermilers of letting your speed drop a bit as you go uphill and regaining it on the downward side.

Click to expand...

But the object of that particular hypermiling technique is to regain the energy lost on the uphill climb by backing off the throttle on the downhill side to *gradually* regain the speed without expending the energy that your 'constant energy' version of a CC would employ

Would this style of CC be possible? Maintaining a constant power output rather than a constant speed setting? Maybe CC in future i-MiEVs can have the ability to switch between the two types of operating modes, power vs. speed.

Click to expand...

Anything is possible - A fly by wire CC like we need would basically be a mini-computer which outputs the same signal the accelerator pedal does and that computer could (in theory) be set to do anything you designed it for . . . . but I don't see any manufacturer opting to add that mode unless there was a substantial demand for it. It's not a feature most of us would opt for simply because it could easily have you doing 25 mph going up hills and 75 mph going down hills - Sounds like lawsuit in the making to me

Don

Yeah, guess you're right. I was just letting my mind wander and meander a bit. The nice thing about putting your ideas on forums like this is that you can usually get a good explanation of the benefits/faults of your ideas. The bad thing is that sometimes you can look like an idiot when you don't fully think things through before posting (such as in this case)!

Ozimiev said:

I agree that some 'try hard' cruise controls 'play' with the throttle too much and this can be wasteful in ICE and EV.
An EV cruise control needs to be more relaxed a bit like the C mode is.

Click to expand...

The cruise control in a Ford Escape is terrible with hills. You're always in a lower gear, either putting the power on or holding back. Level ground only. In a focus, it's pretty good. Puts enough power without overdoing it, and will hold back some with a locked torque converter and the PZEV kicking in. F150, likes to downshift at any hill and doesn't hold back at all.

I'd like to have a setup where a toggle switch controls regen on/off. Have the cruise monitor power and throttle position, and when you let off, the cruise will float a throttle signal to maintain zero power automatically. If you touch the brakes, it goes to zero throttle. Also, it goes to zero throttle if the switch is off.

I had always imagined a CC linked to the GPSmwithnanlearning mode.

The driver would put learning mode on and be hypermiling. CC would register exact location, elevation and throttle work with speed variations. After a few sessions, it would be able to reproduce an average or median drive.

The problem remains the changes dur to traffic as well as road conditions including rain and wind... But I can imagine that a compromise is doable but not for mass mass market...

Electronic cruise control would be very easy in an electric car if you could figure out the control parameters of the inverter. What you are after is getting the inverter to output a specific frequency to the traction motor to hold it to a constant RPM. Cars with transmissions that shift (or have a torque converter that slips) need a more complex system to regulate the vehicle speed because the engine speed could vary based on load condition. Our electric motor is directly connected via a speed reducer to the drive wheels, therefore the ratio between the motor frequency and the drive wheel speed doesn't change. The primary business of the company that builds the inverter for the I-MiEV is manufacturing industrial variable speed motor controllers---exactly what you would use for cruise control. I believe the cruise control in my LEAF works in this manner. It is very good at holding road speed to within one or two MPH. For the small number of I-MiEV's on the road, I wouldn't expect anyone (except someone on this forum) to go to the trouble to research this.

There are a couple of option for adding CC to the i-Miev - it's either a mechanical link to the accelerator using an electronic servo (used to be vacuum powered) and either tapping into the cars speed signal or adding your own in the usual way (magnets around the drive shaft) OR a much neater and (for some reason) more expensive tap into the CAN bus. A couple of links…

http://www.thecruisecontrolstore.com/universal-rostra-cruise-control-kit-complete/

http://www.rammobile.com/view-product/AP900C-Drive-By-Wire-Cruise-Control

Not cheap at ~$300. Considering the only hardware addition to what is already there would be a 3 switch stalk (on/off, speed up, slow down) and all the rest done in the software, it seems extremely silly for M not to have included it for the start.

It sounds like everything needed for a cruise control is in the canion data.

Perhaps Martin and Priusfan up to a challenge?

I know canion is a read only application but with time and the correct information there are some things it may be able to do writing data to the canbus.

Of course that's more dangerous but as time goes by and more is learnt about what can be done safely it opens up possibilities.

Don.....

At first sight it not seems very difficult. And without write in the CAN-BUS.

A cruise control must have as input, speed (and activation of the brake, for deactivate), and as output throttle signal; little more.

Speed ​​and brake activation are in the CAN-BUS and can be read without problems.

The accelerator signal can be replaced and "simulate" in mode "cruise control on", or by-pass the circuit in mode "cruise control off".

I wonder if writing to the CANbus would cause oscillation of the throttle input, there being messages for both the simulated and real throttle positions, or if it's so fast that it won't be noticed.

You wouldn't have to worry much about a runaway car as much, since if either the phone freezes/receives a call or the dongle loses connection, the simulated message disappears from the CANbus and cruise control is effectively off. Also, the car can always be put in ECO or neutral.

Perhaps if Canion processes too much data to read and write simultaneously, a "cruise mode" or separate app could be developed that only looks at power, speed, and throttle position.

Hello,

Has anyone tried the Smart Line AP900c? This is a can bus model with a harness available for the i-MiEV. It looks to be all electronic with no servos.

About $321 shipped from:

http://www.shop.brandondist.com/Smart-Line-Cruise-Controls_c97.htm

Or as low as $259 shipped at:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/262270480165?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&fromMakeTrack=true

http://www.ebay.com/itm/252273391199?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&fromMakeTrack=true

http://www.ebay.com/itm/252273398358?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&fromMakeTrack=true

Opinions please!

Thanks,
Mike -- Phoenix AZ