Malm
Posts: 449
Joined: Mon Jul 22, 2013 12:16 pm
Location: Tábua - Portugal

Re: I-MiEV owner - Portugal

Fri Sep 02, 2016 2:05 am

Now with 94.000 km (58.500 miles). Almost 5 years and an half. EvBatMon shows 34 Ah, a little more then 70% of its original capacity. It's now losing 0,8 Ah an year (in the last 2 years) and last month I accomplished the last big challenge that an i-MiEV owner can have here, going to the southest region of Portugal - Algarve. 700 miles in 3 days.

The trip going south:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZ76DYTK1Ug
Riding an i-Miev since 4/2011 in Portugal, 100.000 kms.

Malm
Posts: 449
Joined: Mon Jul 22, 2013 12:16 pm
Location: Tábua - Portugal

Re: I-MiEV owner - Portugal

Fri Sep 02, 2016 5:58 am

My i-MiEV in summer 2016. I never saw such an hot summer.

Image

It's an aged battery, but with no signs of failure. 15 to 20% less range then in 2011, but with a better use of the stored energy and with the possibility of using Canion to figure out how much range left in turtle, sometimes feels no difference at all. I would love to have it for more 10 years, and I believe that it will be possible, since now I'm only losing 0,8 Ah/year and for me a car with 35 miles range will be suitable for almost of my needs.

But things are changing, no more like 2011, that was the past. Now I see Nissan Leaf and BMW i3 in Portugal roads with twice of my actual range (or even more) and even some Teslas Model S, and in two years, most of the new cars will have 150 mile range or more. To be trapped to the pass just for my passion for this car is not in my nature, and maybe in the end it will be traded, together with my VW Golf for the electric car that we allways wanted to have, the one that replaces the gas car completly.
Riding an i-Miev since 4/2011 in Portugal, 100.000 kms.

Malm
Posts: 449
Joined: Mon Jul 22, 2013 12:16 pm
Location: Tábua - Portugal

Re: I-MiEV owner - Portugal

Fri Sep 02, 2016 7:25 am

In 2011 (time of LEV50), when I bought it (and it was expensive), almost everybody thought that I made a very weird option (at least. Some would call it stupid). Now they are asking with some envy, how much did I saved in these 5 years. Gas is not going very cheap here, since taxes are going stronger. I was expecting, from all that I read, to lose something like 20% of the inicial range in the first 5 years, and 35% at the end of 10 years. Now I see a little better then that, and with all of the acquired knowledge (many of it taken form here) I predict to lose only 30% at the end of 10 years. Beating my expectations.
Riding an i-Miev since 4/2011 in Portugal, 100.000 kms.

Malm
Posts: 449
Joined: Mon Jul 22, 2013 12:16 pm
Location: Tábua - Portugal

Re: I-MiEV owner - Portugal

Wed Sep 07, 2016 2:52 pm

Suddenly, in a flash, the 34Ah went down to 33Ah and are now in 32,9Ah. This value corresponds to less than 11 kWh of maximum load in the batteries. But by the consumption seen through caniOn, it seems to me that this value is very underrated, so I decided to do a load of 0% to 100% to see how much energy is obtained from the wall.

The battery was like this before the charge.

Image

And ended like this.

Image

Image

So, 13,7kWH from the wall, from 0 (that 4,5% where in the reality 0%) to 100%. As I charge at 14,5A (Level 2), I assume a loss of 12% on the charge, so I believe my battery is now of 12 kWh.
Riding an i-Miev since 4/2011 in Portugal, 100.000 kms.

phb10186
Posts: 317
Joined: Fri May 13, 2016 12:58 am
Location: North London suburbs, UK

Re: I-MiEV owner - Portugal

Thu Sep 08, 2016 5:14 am

Very interesting. I wonder if winter temperatures (perhaps not the winters you get in Portugal, but the ones in more northern places, with close to 0 degrees C) will influence the degradation curve - i.e is degradation a greater percentage at near freezing ambient temperature, or is it a constant percentage drop across all temperature ranges.
2012 I-MIEV Keiko Silver 21K
2010 Insight ES-T 64K
2009 RX400h 4WD - 86K
2001 Accord Type-V (F23 manual)
2009 Hornet CB600F
2008 SH300

PV1
Site Moderator
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Contact: Website

Re: I-MiEV owner - Portugal

Thu Sep 08, 2016 5:28 am

Degradation follows a loose reverse bell curve with the lowest degradation occurring at 77 F (25 C). I believe higher temperatures has higher degradation than lower temperatures. Low temperatures seem to only temporarily reduce capacity, which returns as the battery warms back up. The thing to avoid in low temperature is to charge the battery when the cells are below freezing. Our LEV50(n) cells seem to be more tolerant to low temperature charging than consumer device batteries, but you still want to minimize sub-freezing charging, and use a slower charge rate in cold weather (I use level 1 in the winter for the double advantage of being easier on the pack as well as keeping it warm through the night).
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jray3
Posts: 1661
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2011 1:05 am
Location: Tacoma area, WA
Contact: Website

Re: I-MiEV owner - Portugal

Fri Sep 09, 2016 9:38 am

Wow Malm, that's fully discharged graph is the most imbalanced I recall seeing. The BMS certainly did its job during that recharge!
2012 i-SE "MR BEAN" 105,400 miles
2000 Mazda Miata EV, 78 kW, 17 kWh
1983 Grumman Kurbwatt EV,170 kW, 32 kWh
1983 Mazda RX-7 EV 43 kW 10 kWh
1971 "Karmann Eclectric" EV 240 kW 19 kWh
1965 Karmann Ghia Cabriolet

Malm
Posts: 449
Joined: Mon Jul 22, 2013 12:16 pm
Location: Tábua - Portugal

Re: I-MiEV owner - Portugal

Fri Sep 09, 2016 4:48 pm

It always does. I just see some notable differences at low SoC. Below 15%, things get worse and worse. When I drive it to this limits, I always watch the weaker cell, because when hit 2,75V car will shut down, no matter the SoC. Some of you follow me for a long time, maybe remember how it was in the end of 2013.

hImage

Yes, I agree it is a little worst (as we should expect with 40.000 km and 3 years more), but I believe this diferencial degradation of the cells was created (most of it) in 2012 and 2013. This is one more example of how taking care with high temperatures is good for the battery. No more the internal cells where at a much higher temperature then the external cells, so no more much bigger degradation of the internal cells.

As you can see, jray3, maybe you saw in the past a similar picture, and should not be so surprised. I was not.
With that weaker cells more aligned with the others (all at 3,3V/3,4V), I suppose I would have 5% more energy.
Now maybe less 15% range then most of you (2012 USA i-MiEVs), but with caniOn and experience, the 80km range that I could do in April 2011 are the same as I do now.

Anyone disagrees that there was a big improvement in the way the battery is aging? If you agree, don´t forget that this improvement is the result of all the things done after 2013.
Riding an i-Miev since 4/2011 in Portugal, 100.000 kms.

kiev
Posts: 1005
Joined: Sun May 03, 2015 7:15 am
Location: The Heart o' Dixie
Contact: Website

Re: I-MiEV owner - Portugal

Sat Sep 10, 2016 5:24 am

Thanks for sharing your data and findings--you are the trail blazer for the rest of us and we appreciate your dedication.

i didn't know about the car shut down at 2.75 on any cell. When does it go to turtle--is that dependent upon any cell or of total pack voltage?
kiev = kenny's innovative electric vehicle

Malm
Posts: 449
Joined: Mon Jul 22, 2013 12:16 pm
Location: Tábua - Portugal

Re: I-MiEV owner - Portugal

Sat Sep 10, 2016 10:34 am

First I have to say that for some reason not all i-MiEVs behave the same way. For example, turtle light goes on in different i-MiEVs at different values of SoC. In mine, when SoC goes down to 9,5% SoC, turtle goes on. But I know other cars where the value of SoC is not 9,5% (a little higher or a little less). Another example, I showed before that AC goes on in a quick charge when a sensor goes to 31ºC. Surprisingly, after it was seen in many other cars, I found one that only do it at 40ºC.

So, some things that I say will not be extendable to other cars.

In mine, I think total voltage is never used to bring turtle to life. I see turtle in two different scenarios. When a cell goes to very low values (2,8V or 2,75V) and when SoC is 9,5% or lower (whatever total voltage and individual voltages are). I saw a few times, getting turtle and then saw it vanish, when I did a stronger acceleration at low SoC (but over 9,5%). I suppose 2,75V where detected in the weaker cell, car cuts power, and as voltage recovers, turtle went away. The same with SoC - if I get 9,5% SoC I get turtle, but if I can regenerate some energy going downhill just ahead, turtle disappears. It's a game that I some (few) times play with my family, when we are sure (and until today we where always confident, well, I´m confident and they are confident in me) we will arrive home, just bringing and disappearing turtle for some distance (going 10% to 9,5%, going 9,5% to 10%, going 10% to 9,5%,...)(obviously there is a good distance going downhill arriving home from east). One of this days I will make a video of this for my youtube channel.
For this I have the support of caniOn, with that information I know how much energy left in the battery (and I also know what I need to arrive, doing the same route so many times), so we, instead of going in panic, have some moments of fun.
Riding an i-Miev since 4/2011 in Portugal, 100.000 kms.

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