paxfamilia
Posts: 12
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2018 9:10 am

help with used purchase

Thu Aug 30, 2018 9:33 am

Want to get my 18 year old college daughter an EV. She is at UMKC where there are 6 FREE (yes, FREE) J1772 6.6kwh charging stations, that so far, seem to be more empty than full. My new job (new to area) also has 6 stations of the same for about $2 for 2 hours of charging. (Because I am sure I will want to drive it too. I have only test drove one LEAF and absolutely loved driving electric.)

A dealer about 40 miles away has both a 2012 Leaf SL and a Mitzy 2012 (unsure of trim) for sale.

I have no clue how to check battery balance/cells on the miev, and would need help on that. Also, does it use a J port like the Leaf? (If not, then not worth looking at.)

2012 Leaf SL: $8500, 21K
2012 Mitzy (trim? base?): $7250, 22K (Zeck Ford, Leavenworth, KS)

There are some other Leaf options, locally, newer and pricier, but no other iMiev less than 150 miles. one i miev about 3 hours, and a few in Chicago, I see, which would be a pain, but I could borrow dad's diesel truck and pick up with a rented tow dolly.

I believe the Leaf is better priced than the iMiev (without knowing if Leaf has degradation problem, have asked for that info over phone, no luck yet).

Up to this point, I wanted a used Volt, but I cannot justify the price for city commuting and thinking she could take it out of town. If she wants to go out of town without me, I will gladly use her EV while she takes my ICE. I kind of feel like the more expensive Leafs (10-12 K) are not worth it to still get limited EV range, might as well get a Volt?

I would be perfectly happy with the iMiev if could get price down, and it works on the charging as stated (wouldn't ever charge at home, likely). It would be the city driver only, as we have my Crosstrek for highway and if AWD is needed. I like the idea of cheaper as well (unless insurance is higher because Leaf is safer/bigger) for property tax and insurance reasons.

Any advice and/or links for buying information is greatly appreciated!

Thanks!

Don
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Joined: Thu May 10, 2012 3:55 pm
Location: Biloxi MS

Re: help with used purchase

Thu Aug 30, 2018 10:01 am

IMO, the price on both is a bit high - Really high for the Leaf

Yes, the Mitsu uses standard J-1772 charge ports. The one you're looking at is a standard SE model - Comes with alloy wheels, DRL lights, Fog lights and an ungraded radio with USB port which the base models don't have

The Leaf is FWD and the iMiEV is RWD if that makes a difference. Personally, for cars in equal condition with similar miles, I would pay more for the Mitsu than the Leaf

Many early model Leafs suffered from battery problems, especially in hot climates. This is much less of a problem with the iMiEV's and the battery warranty is 10 years, 100,000 miles, should you have any problem

Don
2012 iMiEV SE Premium, White
2012 iMiEV SE, White
2017 Chevy Volt Premier
2014 Ford Transit Connect XLT SWB wagon, 14,000 miles
1979 Honda CBX six into six

paxfamilia
Posts: 12
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2018 9:10 am

Re: help with used purchase

Thu Aug 30, 2018 10:09 am

Thanks, Don, and agreed on over-pricing. Every listing (even private) I find up here is high. Honestly have no clue as to haggling ability until I get to that point. I am guessing because limit on used availability and the fact that KC is "most plugged in" city in US (with 1000 charging points, some of them still free, most cheap, and several quick charge ports as well) is making them over-priced?

I read the warranties on Mitzies are for failure only, and not degradation level (8 bars like on Leaf), is this correct? KS can get real hot, but not for months on end. My concern would be crazy cold snap, which happens now and then. Is the battery heated below zero or negative F degrees to keep it from freezing? (I know on Leafs with cold pack or on the post-2012 Leafs that protection is there.)

jray3
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Location: Tacoma area, WA
Contact: Website

Re: help with used purchase

Thu Aug 30, 2018 10:14 am

Indeed, I have much more confidence with the iMiEV battery at this age than a 2012 LEAF. I'd shoot for $5k or less on the MiEV if it has CHAdeMO, and wear 'em down further on the basis of it being an out-of production orphan with no service options within range, also because it is an ugly little thing that no self-respecting Kansan would buy unless he wanted to put a 30 mile leash on his daughter! :twisted:

The remote control is essential IMHO for cold weather comfort with some range preservation. Mitsu does have a battery heating system, but didn't configure it for renge preservation, only for battery protection in deep subzero conditions... :roll:
2012 i-SE "MR BEAN" 96,000 miles
2000 Mazda Miata EV, 78 kW, 17 kWh
1983 Grumman Kurbwatt EV,170 kW, 32 kWh
1983 Mazda RX-7 EV 43 kW 10 kWh
1971 "Karmann Eclectric" EV 240 kW 19 kWh
1965 Karmann Ghia Cabriolet

Don
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Joined: Thu May 10, 2012 3:55 pm
Location: Biloxi MS

Re: help with used purchase

Thu Aug 30, 2018 10:18 am

paxfamilia wrote:I read the warranties on Mitzies are for failure only, and not degradation level (8 bars like on Leaf), is this correct? KS can get real hot, but not for months on end. My concern would be crazy cold snap, which happens now and then. Is the battery heated below zero or negative F degrees to keep it from freezing? (I know on Leafs with cold pack or on the post-2012 Leafs that protection is there.)

True, the battery warranty is only for failure and not degradation, but many cars have gone beyond 100K now and degradation doesn't seem to be much of a problem. No, the battery isn't heated, but these cars are very popular in Canada and Norway and freezing temps don't seem to hurt the battery. The electric heating system will greatly shorten the winter range though. Several owners in cold climates have spent $700 or so and installed diesel heaters in their cars. The Mitsu is easily adaptable to that mod because it uses a standard water heater core like most ICE's use and the little diesel heater heat water

Don
2012 iMiEV SE Premium, White
2012 iMiEV SE, White
2017 Chevy Volt Premier
2014 Ford Transit Connect XLT SWB wagon, 14,000 miles
1979 Honda CBX six into six

Don
Site Moderator
Posts: 2775
Joined: Thu May 10, 2012 3:55 pm
Location: Biloxi MS

Re: help with used purchase

Thu Aug 30, 2018 10:21 am

jray3 wrote:Indeed, I have much more confidence with the iMiEV battery at this age than a 2012 LEAF. I'd shoot for $5k or less on the MiEV if it has CHAdeMO . . . . .

The car he's looking at is a standard SE - No ChaDeMo. He says they won't be charging it at home, so a missing remote control won't affect him at all. I would make an offer of $6K for this car (because the dealer says it has cruise control, a very rare feature :lol: ) and just walk away if they won't sell it for that

No iMiEV came with cruise control, regardless of model

Don
2012 iMiEV SE Premium, White
2012 iMiEV SE, White
2017 Chevy Volt Premier
2014 Ford Transit Connect XLT SWB wagon, 14,000 miles
1979 Honda CBX six into six

paxfamilia
Posts: 12
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2018 9:10 am

Re: help with used purchase

Thu Aug 30, 2018 5:40 pm

So I went and test drove both vehicles: 2012 Leaf and iMiev. The iMiev SE did not come with a remote; is that a standard feature and what all does the remote do, exactly? Is it an option after-market at a dealership?

I wasn't fond of the iMiev at highway speeds, felt the wind and body roll (felt high profile), and KS can get windy, but it would be a city car anyway. Really enjoyed it at city speeds. Wasn't so fond of the 'gas gauge'. How do you know approx how many miles you have left?

The Leaf was 'luxurious' in comparison, felt fat and wide, lol. DIdn't bother to use SpyLeaf as was just trying to compare drives at this point, new to EVs. Unfortunately the dealer states their prices are NO HAGGLE pricing (like CarMax), and they both are over-priced. Not sure I have the month or two to watch the price drop cuz no one is buying, lol.

JoeS
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Location: Los Altos Hills, California

Re: help with used purchase

Thu Aug 30, 2018 7:19 pm

Hello paxfamilia - you came to the right place to get some information about the i-MiEV.

Sorry your test drive was a bit of a disappointment - I hope the tire pressure was correct (36psi, although many of us go a bit higher), as that also makes a difference in how the car handles. A strong Kansas crosswind affects all vehicles, and the i-MiEV's high profile is affected a bit more than a sedan, but with the very low center of gravity due to the battery placement there's no danger of it being knocked over. Some of us prefer the i-MiEV's handling over that of the Leaf - the i-MiEV is tight and spirited whereas the Leaf is stodgy. I hope you noted the i-MiEV's super-tight turning radius, bested only by the Smart car and a London taxi.

I hope you noticed that the i-MiEV is way more capacious than the Leaf when the back seats are folded down - at 50.4cuft it is more than twice that of the Leaf - and the i-MiEV has a completely flat floor which is great for carrying huge bulky items.

On the i-MiEV instrument panel the right display is multifunction, among them are a couple of trip meters, the odometer, and Range Remaining (RR). Unlike the Leaf's GOM (Guess-O-Meter), the i-MiEV RR display is very predictable as it is based on a simple algorithm: it is a prediction based on the moving average of what consumption the car experienced over the past 15 miles. If you drive consistently on level ground and know what your headwind/tailwind effects were, you can really rely on this gauge. If you turn on the heater, the RR will decrement by about 20% and if you turn on the A/C the display will decrement by about 10% (but it remembers what really took place without those offsets). I personally have that display permanently set to Range Remaining as I have a trip meter on my external GPS and I rarely need to refer to the other displays.

The Remote is a little bit bigger than a thumb drive and allows one to pre-heat or pre-cool the car when it's plugged in. In winter it is soooo nice to come into a pre-warmed- car that also has a pre-heated driver's seat! The Remote also controls the timing of the car's charging such as delay before starting to charge and charging duration. The Remote came standard with the car and if it is missing then demand they get it for you or give you a $1000 reduction in the price of the car as the darn thing costs about $800 and then it has to be programmed by the dealer (but if you need one programmed, we know how to do it) :roll: Many people do not ever use their Remotes, so I wouldn't obsess over it.

Hope this helps, and wish you all the best in making your selection.
EVs: 2 Wht/Blu SE Prem., '13 Tesla MS85, 3 156v CorbinSparrows (2 Li-ion), 24v EcoScoot(LiFePO4)
EV Conv: 156v '86 Ram PU, 144v '65 Saab 96
Hybrids: 48v1kW bike
ICE: '88 Isuzu Trooper. Mothballed: '67 Saab (orig.owner), '76 MBZ L206D RHD RV

paxfamilia
Posts: 12
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2018 9:10 am

Re: help with used purchase

Thu Aug 30, 2018 9:02 pm

Thanks, Joe, and yes, I agree Mitzy felt more fun to drive in the city, and LOVED the visibility. The Leaf felt wide hipped and softer supsension, preferred Mitzy, except past 60mph, then wanted the Leaf. Never felt like it would topple over, but felt more like my old pickup in wind, high profile, if that makes sense.

I have since found a cheaper one, higher trim (ES), beautiful color (the raspberry) complete with remote, 2 key fobs, OEM owner's book, and charging cable, but beyond range, and no quick chargers along route. Still think it's worth a look as I can borrow a diesel truck to tow it (as long as a tow dolly is not too costly.

Don
Site Moderator
Posts: 2775
Joined: Thu May 10, 2012 3:55 pm
Location: Biloxi MS

Re: help with used purchase

Fri Aug 31, 2018 11:38 am

Actually, the ES trim is the cheapest trim model of the three - No DRL/Fog Lights, no alloy wheels (steel wheels with plastic hubcaps) cheaper upholstery and a lesser stereo. However, some ES models did come with DCQC and none of the standard SE's did. The most desirable model of all is the SE Premium, which comes with everything the standard SE came with, plus the Mitsu Nav system, Bluetooth for use with your phone, a hard drive in the stereo for storing music, and all Premiums came with DCQC. When buying used, 95% of the sellers don't know the difference between the 3 models and you can often find a Premium with lower miles for less money than some of the lesser models with higher miles

If you have a way to get it home you can expand your search and maybe snag a real bargain. We bought an SE Premium 4 or 5 years ago when it came off lease with only 3,900 miles on it for a super price . . . . but it was in Indiana, 1,000 miles away. We brought it home on a tandem axle trailer that we borrowed, towed with a diesel pickup

One of our members here drove his car the full length of Route 66 and back home again, charging at motels, campgrounds and places he found on PlugShare - Wasn't a quick trip, but it can be done!!

Don
2012 iMiEV SE Premium, White
2012 iMiEV SE, White
2017 Chevy Volt Premier
2014 Ford Transit Connect XLT SWB wagon, 14,000 miles
1979 Honda CBX six into six

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