Brian
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Re: Maximum Miles Driven In One Day

Thu Aug 30, 2012 8:01 pm

JoeS wrote:I've been thinking about the approach leec presented (above), whereby you drive 50 miles in 50 minutes and then spend 30 minutes Quick Charging, yielding (24hrs*50miles*60min/hr)/(50+30) = 900miles as the theoretical maximum iMiEV daily mileage using Quick Charging (CHAdeMO).

Now, using this same approach, here's the analysis for Level 2 and Level 1 charging...

Level 1 (8A)
A charging rate of 0.9kW * 3.333miles/kWhr results in 3.0miles/rechargehour. To recharge the car after having driven 50 miles we get 50/3= 16.67hours. Thus, we can say that we get back to the charge we started with in 16.67+(50/60)= 17.5hours after starting off on our 50-mile trip (ugh!). Ok, so for 24 hours that gives us 24 * 50/17.5 = 68.6miles theoretical daily maximum using the Mitsubishi 120vac (level 1) EVSE.

How close to these theoretical maximums can you get?


There is a flaw to your thinking in the 8A example above. Your 68.6 mile daily maximum is only 6.6 miles above the estimated range before complete discharge. Even if you stick with driving 50 miles before recharging, are you stating that the most you can drive is only 18.6 miles more? You are looking for maximum range, and for that your scenario does not need to achieve maximum charge on the battery before starting the second leg. What if a driver starts with a full battery, commutes 40 miles to work and plugs the car in for 8 hours while at work, then drives home again? The car has gone 80 miles and only been subjected to 10 hours of driving + charging time. Even if you add 10 hours for charging the previous night, that is only 20 hours consumed.
Owner since 8/22/2012

JoeS
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Re: Maximum Miles Driven In One Day

Fri Aug 31, 2012 6:38 am

Brian wrote:There is a flaw to your thinking in the 8A example above...
Brian, you're right, as I unfortunately tried to cover two separate topics under the auspices of this one thread:

a) Maximum miles driven in one day
b) Maximum miles driven daily

Here's the distinction:

Maximum Miles Driven in One Day encompasses starting with a full charge and allowing for a fully-depleted pack at the end of 24 hours.

Maximum Miles Driven Daily encompasses starting with a full charge and ending with a full charge at the end of 24 hours.

In this thread I shouldn't have wandered off into the theoretical maximums possible for each Level of charging, and instead should have stuck to what maximum mileage people have actually driven in one day.

Perhaps the Maximum Miles Driven Daily discussion deserves its own thread, and we can leave this one alone to let people post the maximum mileage they've actually achieved in 24 hours.
EVs: 2 Wht/Blu SE Prem., '13 Tesla MS85, 3 156v CorbinSparrows (2 Li-ion), 24v EcoScoot(LiFePO4)
EV Conv: 156v '86 Ram PU, 144v '65 Saab 96
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peterdambier
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Re: Maximum Miles Driven In One Day

Thu Nov 22, 2012 2:53 pm

Just a guess: Max distance the battery allows 150 km perhaps 180 km. I/5 means 5 hours driving, speed 30 km/h to 35 km/h and 6 hours charging at 240V/16A. So we get some 150 km to 180 km in 11 hours. That looks like to 12 km/h to 18 km/h average or 290 km to 430 km per day, no matter whether you charge every 15 kilometers or only every 90 kilometers.

Driving faster loses energy from the batteries and due to the wind. So driving faster will most likely lose more time charging than we gain range to to higher speed.

Not so long ago we have been to a pirates (party) convention for 3 days. That's been some 230 km each way. We got off early in the morning and recharged after 15 km. Next step was some 80 km. Highway took its toll. After 4 hours we took the final 111 km and arrived at 7 in the evening. Google meant 200 km but we spent some 30 km in roundabouts and circumventions due to road works. At the end of the day the turtle was complaining and no charge point in sight. 3 days later in the afternoon we took off on our way home. The city hall offered us a final charge from 400V/32A. We used only one phase, 230V/16A but a litte i with a big red plug makes a sight :)

Not without the turtle giving us a fit, we reached our first 111 kilometers. 5 hours charging, it was night and cold and foggy. The final 96 km we continued creeping to not wake the turtle. We succeeded skipping the final 15 km recharge. So we have been driving 236 km twice.

It's got cold now and we have been at a meeting some 90 km away. It turned out to become some 136 km or 260 km on a single day. The way up was nice with an additional charge at a shopping center for 4 hours and a stay at the Mayer who is responsible for another charge point. Our way back was late at night with only a single charge, 4 hours again. We were lucky to find an open greek restaurant with hot food and a heated room.

It is not for every day, it is more like an expedition, but 250 km is doable. We proofed it thrice. It took us from 8 in the morning to 2 at night.
Peter and Karin Dambier, DL2FBA, www.piraten-fraktion-bergstrasse.de

JoeS
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Re: Maximum Miles Driven In One Day

Thu Nov 22, 2012 4:19 pm

peterdambier wrote:... That's been some 230 km each way... So we have been driving 236 km twice...but 250 km is doable. We proofed it thrice. It took us from 8 in the morning to 2 at night.
So, Peter, do we put you down as having achieved 230km(142.9mi), 236km(146.6mi), or 250km(155.3mi)? Congratulations, as either of the last two would mean you set a new record for this Forum! We have no doubt that over 200mi (320km) can be readily achieved by the iMiEV in one 24-hour day using 240vac L2 charging (if someone wants to go to the trouble of doing this).
EVs: 2 Wht/Blu SE Prem., '13 Tesla MS85, 3 156v CorbinSparrows (2 Li-ion), 24v EcoScoot(LiFePO4)
EV Conv: 156v '86 Ram PU, 144v '65 Saab 96
Hybrids: 48v1kW bike
ICE: '88 Isuzu Trooper. Mothballed: '67 Saab (orig.owner), '76 MBZ L206D RHD RV

peterdambier
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Re: Maximum Miles Driven In One Day

Sat Nov 24, 2012 12:52 am

236km(146.6mi) was what the odometer showed at the end of the day.

6 hours left so there is chance of improofment :)
Peter and Karin Dambier, DL2FBA, www.piraten-fraktion-bergstrasse.de

PV1
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Re: Maximum Miles Driven In One Day

Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:28 pm

JoeS wrote:I've been thinking about the approach leec presented (above), whereby you drive 50 miles in 50 minutes and then spend 30 minutes Quick Charging, yielding (24hrs*50miles*60min/hr)/(50+30) = 900miles as the theoretical maximum iMiEV daily mileage using Quick Charging (CHAdeMO).


Does anybody know how multiple quick charges in a day affects battery capacity? If, for example, you would travel I-70 end to end, for a distance of about 2050 miles, with a quick-charger placed every 50 miles, this would require 41 stops, adding 20.5 hours to the trip. Drive time is 34 hours, 10 minutes, making your trip take 54 hours, 40 minutes. This would allow you to drive from Greensburg, PA to Utah where I-70 meets I-15, which takes you to Las Vegas. That leg of the journey would require 5 more charging stops, taking 2.5 hours to charge, 4 hours to drive.

So, to drive 2,300 miles, it would take 46 charging stops, totaling 23 hours of charge time, 38 hours drive time, for a total trip time of 62 hours (rounded up for traffic). Average overall speed is 37 mph, while average moving speed is 60 mph. Doable, assuming someone spends about $1,000,000 in charging equipment, plus external costs.

My question is, what would 46 quick-charges in 2.5 days do to the battery's capacity?

(Disclaimer, I do NOT want to go to Vegas, I-70 ends at I-15, which leads to Vegas) ;)
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Don
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Re: Maximum Miles Driven In One Day

Sun Nov 25, 2012 9:12 pm

PV1 wrote:Doable, assuming someone spends about $1,000,000 in charging equipment, plus external costs.
Just mount the quick charger (and a genset to run it) on a truck and move it from place to place. The truck can go faster than the iMiEV and be all set up to recharge you when you get there :D

My question is, what would 46 quick-charges in 2.5 days do to the battery's capacity?
We won't know for sure until you try it, but it's pretty safe to say that it wouldn't do the battery any good. Mitsu doesn't recommend doing this . . . . there's a disclaimer in the owners manual which reads "Repeatedly performing only quick charging can reduce the battery capacity. Regular recharging is recommended unless quick charging is necessary"

Don
2012 iMiEV SE Premium, White
2012 iMiEV SE, White
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PV1
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Re: Maximum Miles Driven In One Day

Mon Nov 26, 2012 3:16 pm

The $1,000,000 is for the quick chargers themselves (actually $920,000 for 46 Nissan-branded CHAdeMO chargers, $20,000 a piece), which for a near-nationwide electric highway, is not bad.

As far as battery capacity, I guess we'll need in-road inductive charging. Hello, Solar Roadways! 8-)
Inductive charging can currently supply 10 kW to the car, the i uses 18 kW to cruise the highway (300 Wh/mi, 60 mph), so that reduces battery draw to 8 kW, extending range from 50 miles to 120 miles. But, if power consumption falls to 250 Wh/mi, usage drops to 15 kW, pulling 5 kW from the battery, extending range from 56 miles to 192 miles. Pull your power consumption down to or below 10 kW, infinite range.
"Bear" - 2012 Diamond White Pearl ES with QC - 2/21/2013
Solar-powered since 10/10/2013

"Koorz" - 2012 Cool Silver Metallic ES with QC - 1/5/2015

2017 Bolt EV LT in Orange with QC - 7/31/2017

Driving electric since 2-21-2013.

JoeS
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Re: Maximum Miles Driven In One Day

Wed Dec 12, 2012 7:50 am

Back on topic, Lee Colleton (leec) has just documented his 256mile (412km) Three Pass Blast, thus becoming this Forum's new leader in the Maximum Miles Driven In One Day - this accomplished over mountain passes using snow tires. He used a combination of L1, L2, and L3 charging. Congratulations Lee!
EVs: 2 Wht/Blu SE Prem., '13 Tesla MS85, 3 156v CorbinSparrows (2 Li-ion), 24v EcoScoot(LiFePO4)
EV Conv: 156v '86 Ram PU, 144v '65 Saab 96
Hybrids: 48v1kW bike
ICE: '88 Isuzu Trooper. Mothballed: '67 Saab (orig.owner), '76 MBZ L206D RHD RV

leec
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Re: Maximum Miles Driven In One Day

Tue Dec 18, 2012 9:28 am

To be fair, driving 352 miles from Seattle to Portland and back on DCFC and L2 would be the record (also held by YT).

The three pass blast would be the record for maximum elevation gain in a day of greater than 12000 feet.

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