danpatgal
Posts: 202
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2012 10:21 am
Location: Ephrata, PA

Re: Fuel costs

Thu Aug 23, 2012 9:58 am

Don wrote:Depending on how you use the car, 25,000 miles a year might not be hard to do

sandange wrote:Just to clarify our driving habits,...As far as if it's possible with the I Miev - I think so


Like I said, technically possible, just in my experience it seems atypical. For example, before I got the i, I was looking into buying an old generation Toyota RAV4 EV. Most of those I saw available (in car-centric California) were 10+ years old and had less than 100k on the odometer. The Rav4 EV also has a better range than our i.

I'm not trying to be a party pooper (I do own an i and absolutely love it), but I think if you expect to be able to drive the same miles in an EV as an ICE without considering a reduced single trip range, battery recharging time, limited charge stations, or battery degradation, it might not be realistic. It does depend on your habits, how strict you adhere to them, and where you live. But, an EV is naturally less flexible than an ICE (my wife wanted to take the i to Harrisburg, PA today - but couldn't because it's about 40 miles each way, there was no charging available where she was going, so she had to take the gasoline car).

It will improve over time and I believe as more EVs are produced, the fixed costs and battery costs will go down to make EVs clearly not only more environmentally beneficial to own, but also economically so. We're just not yet there for it to be indisputable.

JoeS
Site Moderator
Posts: 3784
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2011 5:47 am
Location: Silicon Valley, California

Re: Fuel costs

Thu Aug 23, 2012 10:32 am

nt2w wrote:...The EPA rating for the i-MiEV is 30kWh per 100 miles (or 300 Wh per mile in EV geekspeak). When I was charging with the supplied Level 1 EVSE (maybe 1000 miles before I installed the Level 2 EVSE), I could use a Kill-a-Watt meter to measure input kWh, and I seemed to be doing a little better than 300Wh/mi, maybe 270 or so. But for argument's sake, we'll use 300. (Anybody have better measurements on this?)
My most recent utility bill was 14.8 cents per kWh, so at 300 Wh per mile, that's 4.4 cents per mile traveled.
Rich, we have a thread for people to post what they're actually measuring wall-to-wheels.
http://myimiev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=3490#p3490
In my case, it's 235.2Whr/mile which, using your 14.8cents/kWhr (seems high) works out to 3.48cents/mile fuel cost. Do you not have reduced time-of-use rates available?
EVs: 2 Wht/Blu SE Prem., '13 Tesla MS85, 3 156v CorbinSparrows (2 Li-ion), 24v EcoScoot(LiFePO4)
EV Conv: 156v '86 Ram PU, 144v '65 Saab 96
Hybrids: 48v1kW bike
ICE: '88 Isuzu Trooper. Mothballed: '67 Saab (orig.owner), '76 MBZ L206D RHD RV

nt2w
Posts: 86
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2012 5:33 am
Location: Potsdam, NY

Re: Fuel costs

Thu Aug 23, 2012 11:16 am

JoeS wrote:Rich, we have a thread for people to post what they're actually measuring wall-to-wheels.
http://myimiev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=3490#p3490
In my case, it's 235.2Whr/mile which, using your 14.8cents/kWhr (seems high) works out to 3.48cents/mile fuel cost. Do you not have reduced time-of-use rates available?


Thanks, I figured there was probably some data mounting out there on the i's fuel economy. I didn't really make any notes during July when I was using Level 1 charging but was surprised at how efficient the MiEV is- by comparison to my ZAP Xebra EV, which typically was 220-230Wh/mile, the MiEV has only a little more appetite for electricity and comes with real-world (not NEV) performance. I seem to recall a best of 250 and typical of 260-270Wh/mile in my suburban not-too-hilly drive cycle for the i.

There is a time-of-use rate here in upstate NY, but typically it's been shown to benefit larger energy users like farms, who use over 2500kWh per month. My typical bill, even with the EV, runs around 700 or 800kWh per month, not enough kWh to offset the higher (by $10) monthly basic service charge. Also, here in NY, the real benefit comes in the supply charge, not the utility's delivery charge, so it's a function of WHOM you purchase electric supply from. The grid-tied PV system adds yet another layer of complexity in my personal situation.
2012 i-MiEV ES, Black (owned 6/2012-4/2014)
Aerovironment Level 2 EVSE
Powered in part by 1680W of Photovoltaics

Don
Site Moderator
Posts: 2902
Joined: Thu May 10, 2012 3:55 pm
Location: Biloxi MS

Re: Fuel costs

Thu Aug 23, 2012 11:39 am

danpatgal wrote:I think if you expect to be able to drive the same miles in an EV as an ICE without considering a reduced single trip range, battery recharging time, limited charge stations, or battery degradation, it might not be realistic. It does depend on your habits, how strict you adhere to them, and where you live. But, an EV is naturally less flexible than an ICE (my wife wanted to take the i to Harrisburg, PA today - but couldn't because it's about 40 miles each way, there was no charging available where she was going, so she had to take the gasoline car)
You're not a party pooper - You're just pointing out some of the obvious differences between it and other cars . . . . and I agree with you 100%

Unless your transportation needs are dramatically different from 90% of us, the i cannot be your only car. It's extremely good at what it was designed to do and it can greatly reduce your transportation costs for most of your driving needs, but it certainly can't do everything. Personally, I think it's getting a bad reputation sometimes because it doesn't live up to the unreasonable expectations some folks had for it before they bought it. As you noted, it cannot do everything you used to do with the ICE it replaced. It's range limited, can't tow a trailer and doesn't have the luggage capacity that many hatchbacks have

Teamed with a versatile ICE though, it can really reduce your overall transportation costs and might even allow cobwebs to form on your ICE from time to time

Don
2012 iMiEV SE Premium, White
2012 iMiEV SE, White
2017 Chevy Volt Premier
2014 Ford Transit Connect XLT SWB wagon, 14,000 miles
1979 Honda CBX six into six

jray3
Posts: 1661
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2011 1:05 am
Location: Tacoma area, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Fuel costs

Thu Aug 23, 2012 3:29 pm

I'm on week 35 of ownership and just hit 9000 miles. That converts to an expected annual mileage of 13,371. Certainly above the US fleet average, (which now stands at 12,334) but not requiring heroics by any means. Twice that would have been quite possible while sticking with Level 1 charging at work, since the car gets heavy evening and weekend use. (Level II at work should be in place within a month, thanks to the final bit of EV Project funding.) :mrgreen: No ChaDEmo either...
2012 i-SE "MR BEAN" 105,400 miles
2000 Mazda Miata EV, 78 kW, 17 kWh
1983 Grumman Kurbwatt EV,170 kW, 32 kWh
1983 Mazda RX-7 EV 43 kW 10 kWh
1971 "Karmann Eclectric" EV 240 kW 19 kWh
1965 Karmann Ghia Cabriolet

sandange
Posts: 907
Joined: Thu Jul 05, 2012 2:21 am
Location: Quebec, Canada
Contact: Website

Re: Fuel costs

Fri Aug 24, 2012 3:18 am

When we decided to buy the I Mieve as our only car, we did not expect it to have the same driving conveniences as the ICE Fit ,
But were willing to accept some occasions to have to rent, or swap with an ICE.

As the 2 largest cost to owning a new vehicle are #1 Depreciation & # 2 Fuel,
Heading soon into retirement, buying or owning a second car was not an option

Our money toilet - We own a ice motorcycle and love to ride long trips ( 370 miles, 600km, off to Toronto this weekend)

We work our vehicles hard, but also keep them in top shape

I will be using a trailer on occasion although not for heavy loads or long distances,
Our son is moving next week end and will bring it to him empty a 4 1/2' x 9' open trailer (44 miles, 70 km) as a trial run.

As far as charging locations go - we have them where ever there is a 110 dedicated plug & people willing to allow us to use it.
New ones are being installed everywhere & we hope to see the first fast charge station installed here in our area soon.
Tesla Model 3 SR+, 2019
Previous EVs
Puey Bluey 2014 Miev
200,000 km , 124.000 miles.
Blackie - 2012 ES Miev 2 years - 67,000 km / (41,630 miles)
http://thecordstead.blogspot.ca/

sandange
Posts: 907
Joined: Thu Jul 05, 2012 2:21 am
Location: Quebec, Canada
Contact: Website

Re: Fuel costs

Thu Sep 13, 2012 5:10 am

We just had a gas price spike here in Montreal yesterday

1 US Gallon = 6.21 USD = 6.06 Canadian dollars

1.599 liter
Tesla Model 3 SR+, 2019
Previous EVs
Puey Bluey 2014 Miev
200,000 km , 124.000 miles.
Blackie - 2012 ES Miev 2 years - 67,000 km / (41,630 miles)
http://thecordstead.blogspot.ca/

tonymil
Posts: 274
Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2012 6:50 am
Location: Latham, NY

Re: Fuel costs

Mon Jan 07, 2013 8:34 pm

-deleted-
Last edited by tonymil on Tue Jan 08, 2013 1:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Applewins
Posts: 44
Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2012 5:16 am
Location: Grand Rapids, MI.

Re: Fuel costs

Mon Jan 07, 2013 8:55 pm

fjpod wrote:
JrCRXHF wrote:In michigan from 11pm-7am M-F we get .06kW and then weekends all day is .06kW other then that in the summer it is .12kw during peak and summer it is .20kW.

They give all of the house that power rate when you buy a electric car and also pay up to 2500 of the cost of a level 2 charger and install.

So vs driving the lifted cummins truck the diesel bill pays for the miev's payment.


I think I'm moving to michigan. In NYC, our supplier, ConEdison, does no such thing.


Yes, I'm also a Michigander. With consumers energy I'm at 7 cents kwh from 11 pm to 7am. Just delay charging every night. Then that rate all weekend. Changes a little for winter. But the cool thing was the up to $2500 refund for the charger, install of charger, panel upgrade, and smoke alarms. Local inspector required hard wired alarms be installed with a panel upgrade. A total win, win situation.
2002 Buick Park Ave average 23 MPG
2010 BMW GT 1300 K 47 MPG
2012 Mitsubishi I-MiEV ...$1.00 per recharge between 11PM-7AM and weekends

clovi
Posts: 48
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 6:36 am

Re: Fuel costs

Wed Jan 09, 2013 8:19 am

I just bought the "I" last month.
I live in VA and I have a 70 mile commute every day (35 each) , and sometimes going for 2 more different places what are distant 10 and 19 miles.
I can plug at my house , what for now I just have level 1 and I can plug in level 1 , level 2 and level 2 on these other places, what most of the time I get free juice!
I never got without juice.
I plan to buy this car for 2 months , going to these places and checking what I need to do if the stations are busy or etc...
The level 2 will be install at my house this week , where Dominium Virginia Power has a EV pricing plan for $0.05 per KW from 1:00am to 6:00am and $0.08 from 10:00pm to 1:00am and from 6:00am to 8:00am.
So , end of the story short , I can pay the car monthly with my old fuel bills, and maybe put something on the pocket, because no oil changes , filters, exhaust, belts etc... and 8 years or 100.000 miles warranty.
Cost for me to operate the "I"? probably around $0.50 to $0.60 to drive around 85 miles/day. :lol:
2 IMIEVS.
Bianco - 95 K miles
Vino - 40K miles

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