Fueling Time - BEV vs. ICE

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JoeS

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Intended as a fun thread.

I simply don't spend any time "waiting" while my car charges, as I'm always doing something else. The last time I recall cooling my heels while public charging was my 200-mile (one way) trip on Christmas Day a year ago - and even then it was a few 20-minute DCQC stints during which I caught up on emails or had a snack, and one three-hour L2 session in the Sierra foothills during which I went out to dinner and caught up on a whole bunch of deferred administrative stuff on my computer.

So, this got me wondering how much time I spend 'fueling' my i-MiEV compared to having to put fuel into an ICE vehicle.

First, some ground rules.

I ignore the times that I would have made a special ICE trip to the gas station (eight mile round trip) to fill up the tank before taking off on a longer trip; instead, let's just say we pull into the gas station to add gas along our normal route. Thus, zero time or mileage spent specially to go tank up.

I'll also ignore waiting in line to fill up with gas and simply assume the pump is available, although I still remember waiting for hours for gas in the 70's.

I also ignore fuel costs, as that's covered in separate threads.

For an ICE vehicle -

Pull up to the pump, select the payment, pump the gas, replace the nozzle and be on the way. I'm one of those who pays cash, so there's the extra step of going up to and waiting for the cashier a couple of times. All told, this process takes, what, 5 minutes? I haven't done it in so long that I don't remember...

For a small car with a 12-gallon gas tank, that usually means putting in 10 gallons which, at 25mpg yields 250 miles/fillup. At an average of 1000miles/month, this means four fillups/month or 48 fillups/year.

48*5min = 240 minutes/year = 4 hours per year spent just going to filthy smelly carcinogenic gas stations. :roll:

For an EV -

Charging in my nice clean fresh-smelling garage, I have a very short (4') charging cord; thus, say, ten seconds to open the flap and plug in and another ten seconds to unplug, close the flap, and put the cord away, for a total of 20 seconds per charging session. Let's say I charge every night but on average do a second charge during the day every other day. Thus, 20 seconds/day * 365 days/year + 20sec * 365/2 = 10950 seconds/year = 3 hours/year. Wow, the seconds do add up, but the environment is much more pleasant and convenient.

If I charged twice every day, then the total time consumed would be four hours, identical to an ICE vehicle.

Conclusion: we spend about the same amount of time fueling an i-MiEV as we do fueling an ICE vehicle.

Open to differing opinions...

Perhaps someone wants to start a thread entitled "Maintenance Time and Cost - BEV vs. ICE"? - I'll let someone else comment on this, as I've never yet had 'maintenance' performed by 'professionals' on any of my cars.
 
Well,

One thing I can add is that the 5 minutes I used to spend fueling the ice in the bitter cold of the winter seemed a lot longer then 5 minutes. I remember pulling into full service stations, paying a premium for gas and tipping the poor attendant who was dressed in arctic survivor gear just to avoid pumping it myself when it was miserable. I don't miss those days at all.

Plugging in the imiev in the garage during the cold season is a dream by comparison.

Don.....
 
Yep. I remember trying to put some gas in our truck when a borderline microburst hit. With the power problems and jumping back in the truck as I was getting pelted by what felt like sand, it took better than 20 minutes to put 4 gallons in. The last few times a bad storm rolled in with the i-MiEV, I set an hour delay with the remote from inside the house, and that was it. The storm usually only lasts for half an hour, so the car resumed charging automatically after the bad weather passed. (I stopped charging in case of a brownout or lightning strike).

As for when I use a company car, 5-10 minutes actually at the pump, and probably another 3-5 minutes getting into and back out of the gas station, $30 later (2 months of electric driving cost wise, which takes me much further than $30 worth of gas, even at 38 mpg).

Even though the car may take 5 hours to fully recharge, the user interface only totals a few seconds a day. The only exception is waypoint charging. I almost always stay with the car during quick charging, usually watching CaniOn. Every once in a while I'll spend an hour or two in the car at a level 2, but usually before an event where I'm meeting other EV drivers. During that time, I usually watch videos online or clean the car, although I now have a PlayStation in the car.
 
JoeS said:
Conclusion: we spend about the same amount of time fueling an i-MiEV as we do fueling an ICE vehicle.
I know you're just kidding . . . . right??

I think 10 seconds to put the plug in or take it out is a bit optimistic . . . . but it makes the numbers work for you, so I'm guessing that' why it was chosen. It takes me more than 10 seconds to get out and walk around the car after I pull the lever to open the lid :lol:

But, you're comparing apples to oranges - Charging at home vs fueling out on the road somewhere. Add those hours and hours to your cumulation of 10 second 'at home' charges and you'll see that 'fueling' an EV . . . . total fueling and not just what you do at home is not a comparison we're going to win. My 'compact ICE' takes about 14 gallons and gets 33 mpg, so it's not 4 hours for me, but when I plug into an L2 outlet downtown (we finally have one in our town of 50,000) it takes me more than ten minutes to walk somewhere and get a cup of coffee . . . . and let's face it, the hours I sit there waiting for my L2 charge are pretty much . . . . wasted. Two public charging sessions equals more than the 4 hours you claim for fueling an ICE for an entire year!

I'm going to have to make two 110 mile trips to Pensacola (which is now my 'local' dealer) and 110 more back home for two cars to get this latest round of recalls done and fuelling for those 240 miles is pretty much going to make it an overnight trip (with the meals and motel costs added in) whereas if it was an ICE trip, it could be done and back before noon. I guess I could claim we were taking a 'vacation' (two 'vacations' actually) and not claim that it's the hours and hours spent 'refueling' that's the root of the problem . . . . but clearly it is

'Fuelling' an EV is probably the single biggest, HUGE 'negative' issue we have to contend with . . . . even if you own a Tesla and use their Supercharging stations. As I said, NOT an argument we're going to win when compared to ICE drivers

Ben spent about 4 hours 'fueling' his new EV just on the single trip home from picking it up . . . . and he was freezing to death for much of that time :lol: When it comes to time spent fuelling, gimme an ICE every day - I can stick the nozzle in the tank, get back inside the warm car and wait for it to click off in a minute or two . . . . and I'll be thinking about poor freezing Ben the whole time

Don
 
Unless you live in the Netherlands where it's not allowed to set the nozzle on auto. Then you have to stand there in a gale waiting for a car to fill.

I never had the habit to drive a car to empty, so I chose in which weather I filled the car up. But on occasion I would still need to, and with the amount of unmanned gas stations these days that don't have any roof that can be a bit of a chore.

The gas station I always visited is directly en route on the corner of my suburb when I come home or drive to work, it's also one of the cheapest. The bad part is that is not shielded from the elements and you are basically standing in the middle of the field buffeted by the wind.

In that regard, the 30 seconds or so I need to plug or unplug the car is by comparison very short, and not enough to get rain soaked.
 
Don said:
Add those hours and hours to your cumulation of 10 second 'at home' charges and you'll see that 'fueling' an EV . . . . total fueling and not just what you do at home is not a comparison we're going to win.
That depends on whether you do any charging outside the home. Some people never will. I never would, if I weren't doing it just for the sake of checking in on PlugShare, or out of curiosity.

I think I could add a substantial amount of outside DCFC to the home charging and still come out ahead, if I were prone to long trips. But yeah, L2 outside the home is pretty much no good, unless it's incidental to doing something else in the same location, like shopping -- in which case, it fades into the background again.
 
Don said:
I think 10 seconds to put the plug in or take it out is a bit optimistic . . .
Remember my discussions about where to ideally locate the EVSE and its cord? Mine is right next to the filler and I need less than 4' of cord to plug in. Just timed myself, and, irrespective of whether I'm in the car, pull the handle, and get out and go around the back and plug in, or whether I approach the car, open the door, pull the filler handle, and then walk behind the car and plug it in - it's just under ten seconds! Unplugging, closing the filler door, and hanging the cord back up is on the order of 2-3 seconds. Thus, I think I was being generous allocating 10 seconds for each operation. :(

The "every-other-day" charging scenario was meant to also include public charging.

Now, reflecting on my own longer trips, I invariably combine the charging with another activity such as a meeting or a meal. I simply never stand around staring at the car charging - that's about as useful as waiting for a printer to do its thing. ;) If nothing else, I go for a walk and get some exercise (my wife and I did just that a couple of weeks ago when I elected to put in a L2 better-safe-than-sorry charge in the middle of nowhere after an unexpected emergency visit to the vet).

I enjoyed Ben Nelson's documentary - hey, he was being productive while his car was charging!

BTW, no one called me on how much time is consumed getting the Remote to 'take' :lol:

All that said, I'll take my tongue out of my cheek and agree that longer trips can be painful, especially for those without DCQC. Nevertheless, I'll stick with my numbers for everyday local driving fueling time consumption. Before I started this exercise I had no 'feel' for whether the numbers would be close or a couple-of-orders-of-magnitude away from each other.
 
JoeS said:
I enjoyed Ben Nelson's documentary - hey, he was being productive while his car was charging!

All that said, I'll take my tongue out of my cheek and agree that longer trips can be painful, especially for those without DCQC. Nevertheless, I'll stick with my numbers for everyday local driving fueling time consumption. Before I started this exercise I had no 'feel' for whether the numbers would be close or a couple-of-orders-of-magnitude away from each other.

I agree with you JoeS whole heartedly. I'm 6 months into not driving an ICE at all. Except, I still get gas for my wife (she expects it (my own doing)). Basically the time spent is immaterial in my view. I've got no time to waste and don't waste it ever. Having done some DCQC now finally, there are plenty of odds and ends to take care of while the car charges. With todays connected world if someone isn't being productive while the car charges. I would say better planning is in order. It's a pleasure to not have to go to the gas station while I'm out. That stink always seems to follow you into the car and linger for a few miles or hours depending, yuck!

These BEV cars aren't meant for long trips so that isn't a fair comparison . . . period. A riding lawn mower isn't designed to take grocery shopping and I'm sure and ICE car is a far more enjoyable way to get that done :)

Time spent on anything has to include the quality of that time as well . . . BEV wins hands down!

Aerowhatt
 
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