JoeS
Site Moderator
Posts: 3480
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2011 5:47 am
Location: Los Altos Hills, California

Re: Road Trip...Sort Of

Wed May 13, 2015 8:16 am

PV1 wrote:...My speed on the highway was between 55-60 mph (roughly 93 kmh), mostly at 58 MPH. Overall efficiency of this trip was 147 Wh/km, or 4.225 mi/kWh. Taking the main road to work, I usually see 120 wh/km.
Need to keep honing your hypermiling skills. On that 100+ mile heavy-traffic freeway trip I took the other day, I was running below 110Wh/km for most of the trip. Climbing is no problem as I find I get most of it back on the downhill runs.

Hey, PV1, pre-calculating and then trying to get to that charging station is what makes a long-distance BEV trip an 'adventure'. :geek:
EVs: 2 Wht/Blu SE Prem., '13 Tesla MS85, 3 156v CorbinSparrows (2 Li-ion), 24v EcoScoot(LiFePO4)
EV Conv: 156v '86 Ram PU, 144v '65 Saab 96
Hybrids: 48v1kW bike
ICE: '88 Isuzu Trooper. Mothballed: '67 Saab (orig.owner), '76 MBZ L206D RHD RV

PV1
Site Moderator
Posts: 2917
Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2012 4:22 pm
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Contact: Website

Re: Road Trip...Sort Of

Wed May 13, 2015 9:11 am

I think that is the main difference. When you say heavy-traffic, are you running with a pack of vehicles, or is everybody flying past you in the other lane? The test trip I did was pushing my own air.

I've done some highway driving in heavy traffic moving at 60 mph a few times and never had the needle touching "ECO". The other morning on the main road, I was holding 40 mph with the needle barely in the green.

I'd be all for doing the trip, but having two passengers who aren't quite as excited about a no-gas road trip makes things tough. Spending over 2 hours at the Mitsubishi dealer on my Morgantown trip has left a bad impression, on top of all the nonsense I hear about not running heat or AC. :roll:
"Bear" - 2012 Diamond White Pearl ES with QC - 2/21/2013
Solar-powered since 10/10/2013

"Koorz" - 2012 Cool Silver Metallic ES with QC - 1/5/2015

2017 Bolt EV LT in Orange with QC - 7/31/2017

Driving electric since 2-21-2013.

PV1
Site Moderator
Posts: 2917
Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2012 4:22 pm
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Contact: Website

Re: Road Trip...Sort Of

Thu May 21, 2015 7:17 pm

Well, for those that have read the thread "Battery only charging halfway" from page 6 on, you'll know that I am experiencing a dramatic decrease in range due to either a failing cell or a damaged management board in my battery pack in my primary car, Bear. Since other family members are using Koorz, I can't make this trip with the i-MiEV. Even if Koorz was available, it has a slightly shorter range than Bear, and the only time I've quick charged it, it maxed out at 10 kW. The middle of the trip has a stretch where every mile counts, and I doubt either car can easily span the gap.

So, while planning this trip out was fun, I'll be taking the hybrid. If I have a need to do this trip in the future, I may try it in the i-MiEV, but I worry what effects will be had by three quick charges and highway driving on the battery pack.
"Bear" - 2012 Diamond White Pearl ES with QC - 2/21/2013
Solar-powered since 10/10/2013

"Koorz" - 2012 Cool Silver Metallic ES with QC - 1/5/2015

2017 Bolt EV LT in Orange with QC - 7/31/2017

Driving electric since 2-21-2013.

JoeS
Site Moderator
Posts: 3480
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2011 5:47 am
Location: Los Altos Hills, California

Re: Road Trip...Sort Of

Thu May 21, 2015 9:20 pm

PV1 wrote:So, while planning this trip out was fun, I'll be taking the hybrid. If I have a need to do this trip in the future, I may try it in the i-MiEV, but I worry what effects will be had by three quick charges and highway driving on the battery pack.
My long-distance trip on Christmas Day had the battery temperature continually rising - if I recall, it got above 30degC even though the ambient air temperature in the mountains was close to freezing by the end of the trip. Knowing what I know now, I would not repeat the same trip in summer; however, I haven't performed the battery a/c vent mod yet, so don't know what that might do.

PV1, while you're taking that trip in the hybrid, you might stop by some of the charging stations you had mapped out along the way, just to assess their potential suitability. I've been doing that on occasion - some charging locations took quite a bit of wandering about to find and I was glad I wasn't seeking them while running on empty! Pay special attention to that long stretch between stations to see if any other charging alternatives are available (or maybe the ability to really slow down?).
EVs: 2 Wht/Blu SE Prem., '13 Tesla MS85, 3 156v CorbinSparrows (2 Li-ion), 24v EcoScoot(LiFePO4)
EV Conv: 156v '86 Ram PU, 144v '65 Saab 96
Hybrids: 48v1kW bike
ICE: '88 Isuzu Trooper. Mothballed: '67 Saab (orig.owner), '76 MBZ L206D RHD RV

PV1
Site Moderator
Posts: 2917
Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2012 4:22 pm
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Contact: Website

Re: Road Trip...Sort Of

Thu Nov 05, 2015 4:04 pm

We did a day trip today in Bear. In total, with 2 quick charges and a 10 minute level 2 opportunity charge, we covered 131.9 miles with a total time of 7.5 hours. We drove up to Pittsburgh and slowly made our way to the Cranberry quick charger. Juiced up to 80% there, then drove the highway back to the Mall at Robinson, then on to the airport to use the quick charger there. Then we took a leisurely drive back home. Couldn't ask for a better day. Total charging costs was $2.20 on the airport quick charger (plus a 75 cent toll for taking a toll road by mistake).

Here's the log:

1. Drove 55.7 miles to Eaton quick charger with 5 bars, 28 miles RR, and 37.5% charge remaining.
2. Quick charged to 80%, taking 15 minutes 41 seconds and consuming 6.8 kWh. Left with 14 bars, 70 miles RR.
3. Drove 24.2 miles to the mall, arriving with 7 bars, 32 miles RR, and 47% charge remaining.
4. Charged to 54% on Level 2, left with 8 bars, 37 miles RR.
5. Drove 8.8 miles to the airport, arriving with 6 bars, 27 miles RR and 41% charge remaining.
6. Quick charged to 82%, taking 13 minutes 9 seconds and consuming 6.4 kWh. Left with 14 bars, 60 miles RR.
7. Drove 43.2 miles home. Arrived with 4 bars, 16 miles RR, and 28% charge remaining. Total distance driven is 131.9 miles.

Max battery temperature observed was 95 F battery average temperature with a few individual cells reaching 100 F during the airport quick charge. I forced ambient air into the pack during the whole drive home (about 75 F outside temperature).
"Bear" - 2012 Diamond White Pearl ES with QC - 2/21/2013
Solar-powered since 10/10/2013

"Koorz" - 2012 Cool Silver Metallic ES with QC - 1/5/2015

2017 Bolt EV LT in Orange with QC - 7/31/2017

Driving electric since 2-21-2013.

PV1
Site Moderator
Posts: 2917
Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2012 4:22 pm
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Contact: Website

Re: Road Trip...Sort Of

Tue Jan 26, 2016 9:30 pm

So, a lot of reading about long-range EVs (the eSamba with the Tesla trailer pack being one of them) and rapid charging (pretty much everything kilowatts :lol: ) got me wanting to do some long-range road tripping again :roll: . This thread was started with a desire to do a trip to State College, PA in the i-MiEV (which was unfortunately put off due to a cell failure and lack of highway driving data), but I've been thinking that it would be cool to do the 500+ mile trek to EV Town, USA (Normal, IL). Part of me wants to do the trip with a battery trailer, giving the i-MiEV a 275 mile range and only needing 4 charging stops on the way, but I mostly want to do a road trip with the car as-is. Bolstered by the specs on the LEV50n cells regarding cycle life and my slightly improved range, I'm feeling better about doing a road trip. This obviously won't happen immediately, but I hope to complete this trip sometime this year. I may get to practice by driving to State College, as I do have business there coming up this Spring.

I'm thinking that taking a small 48 volt battery bank and inverter is a must for emergency power to net me about 10 miles in a pinch.
I will also be investigating a portable quick charger to cut level 2 charge times in half at least.
Bear is already equipped with entertainment for time spent at charging stations (PS2 and Android Head Unit).
I've now done a 144.8 mile trip in Bear using waypoint DCQC and destination L1 charging, resulting in little time lost vs. an ICE. During the trip discussed in my previous post, both myself and my passenger have found the seats to be surprisingly comfortable and supportive after a long drive. We didn't feel worn out after getting home.

Of course, just the drive there on the preliminary route without including charging time is 12+ hours :shock: . It will take two days or better to get there. By most means, I'm in no hurry. I simply want to have fun and enjoy the journey. It's not much of a road trip when one is in a hurry to get to the destination, is it? I still have to map out charging, but going between here and Columbus, Ohio looks pretty doable, as long as the RV parks are willing to allow EV charging (If I pay for a spot, what's the difference?).
"Bear" - 2012 Diamond White Pearl ES with QC - 2/21/2013
Solar-powered since 10/10/2013

"Koorz" - 2012 Cool Silver Metallic ES with QC - 1/5/2015

2017 Bolt EV LT in Orange with QC - 7/31/2017

Driving electric since 2-21-2013.

databeestje
Posts: 82
Joined: Tue Nov 24, 2015 2:47 am
Location: Netherlands

Re: Road Trip...Sort Of

Wed Jan 27, 2016 8:28 am

I commented in another thread that the Brusa 614-24 bi-directional DC/DC inverter will allow you to use a 24 Volt external pack to charge and discharge, you could probably add a small logic board that triggers on the (fast)charge signal and battery levels of the traction pack to charge/discharge.

Just afraid of what that Brusa would cost. On the other hand, since it allows for liquid cooling you could relatively easily integrate it into the motor cooling loop if you wanted. Still, I'd reckon about a 1000 for the converter atleast (2.8kW) and you'd need another couple thousand for the battery.

In a pinch a relatively small pack in front of the rear seats on the floor (5-10 cm) would be a possibility and good for a few kWh.

PV1
Site Moderator
Posts: 2917
Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2012 4:22 pm
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Contact: Website

Re: Road Trip...Sort Of

Wed Jan 27, 2016 10:30 am

That converter sounds interesting, but my plan for the 48 volt pack was to keep it separate from the HV. If I need the capacity, it would be used with an inverter and the EVSE to charge the car in an emergency. I figure a 48 volt, 100 Ah pack of LiFePO4 would give me at least 8 miles of extra range. I don't think it would be necessary at all, since the longest stretch between stations is 58 miles on a pretty flat 50 MPH main road. I could likely find 120 volt outlets easier than having a pack with me taking up space.

Just mapping out on Plugshare, it looks like 13 charging stops would cover the trek, with the possibility of skipping at least 1 stop. Two are CHAdeMO, most of the others are campgrounds with 14-50 outlets, and a few are dealers, including O'Brien Mitsubishi.

So, just some quick math. Nearly all charging stops are roughly 30 miles apart, so assuming I use half a charge between them, that would be 10 stops at 2.5 hours each, 1 stop for 5 hours, and two 1-hour CHAdeMO stops (20 minutes or less each if I only go to 80%). Total charging time, with the car completely as-is, is 32 hours, on top of 13 hours of driving. Now, if I have a portable CHAdeMO unit, I can charge at 2-4 times the speed, reducing the 10 stops to an hour or less and the 5 hour stop down to 2 hours. Total charging time would be reduced from 32 hours to 14 hours, reducing the travel time from 45 hours to 27 hours 8-) , just by increasing the charging rate on 240 volts. The portable charger would allow 40 amp (8-9.6 kW) charging at places with a 14-50 outlet and 60 amp (12.5-13.2 kW) at places with side-by-side charging stations.
"Bear" - 2012 Diamond White Pearl ES with QC - 2/21/2013
Solar-powered since 10/10/2013

"Koorz" - 2012 Cool Silver Metallic ES with QC - 1/5/2015

2017 Bolt EV LT in Orange with QC - 7/31/2017

Driving electric since 2-21-2013.

jray3
Posts: 1501
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2011 1:05 am
Location: Tacoma area, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Road Trip...Sort Of

Wed Jan 27, 2016 1:20 pm

PV1, I love the idea of portable CHAdeMO, but hacking these cars has software hasn't happened, and I intend to make no 'internal' electrical modifications until the warranty expires, or I run out of other EV projects. (So the warranty date is definitely going to win!)

Other than the EMW Motorworks crew and your very Focused friend, are there any other portable CHAdeMO projects online? The http://www.emotorwerks.com/store-juiceb ... ct/listing
have no users that I'm aware of around Seattle, and I'm unwilling to drop that kinda bank on a product without verifiable testimonials.

I'm still centered on through-the-road (pusher) solutions rather than hacking the car. A pusher trailer, whether engined or motored, is so much easier to integrate than a any option for faster charging or charging while driving.
2012 i-SE "MR BEAN" 87,000 miles
2012 i-ES traded at 21,648 miles
1983 Grumman Kurbwatt,170 kW, 32 kWh
1983 Mazda RX-7 EV 43 kW 10 kWh
1971 "Karmann Eclectric" EV 240 kW 19 kWh
1965 Karmann Ghia Cabriolet

PV1
Site Moderator
Posts: 2917
Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2012 4:22 pm
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Contact: Website

Re: Road Trip...Sort Of

Wed Jan 27, 2016 1:29 pm

Jay, I'm not modifying the car in any way. This is simply an external CHAdeMO unit that happens to be portable and run on single-phase 240 volts. The car sees it as just another quick charger. I won't be doing any range-extending or charging while moving, just bypassing the on-board charger with an external DCQC.

I would like to keep this thread on topic, so portable CHAdeMO conversation is probably best held here (http://myimiev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=2567).

To answer your question, I only know of EMW that makes anything remotely portable and affordable.

very Focused friend

:lol: :lol: I see what you did there.

As for my possible test run to State College, there is now a L2 charging station in Ebensburg (halfway through the longest stretch), so I have a backup now 8-) ...even if it is at a funeral home :? .
"Bear" - 2012 Diamond White Pearl ES with QC - 2/21/2013
Solar-powered since 10/10/2013

"Koorz" - 2012 Cool Silver Metallic ES with QC - 1/5/2015

2017 Bolt EV LT in Orange with QC - 7/31/2017

Driving electric since 2-21-2013.

Return to “Driving the iMiev - Range - Energy Efficiency - Operating Cost”