PV1
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Portable CHAdeMO

Sun May 03, 2015 7:59 am

Since the i-MiEV has yet (if ever) to be upgraded to a 6.6 KW on-board charger, I've been wondering the possibility of using a portable CHAdeMO-compatible charger to allow use of the full output of a charging station or 240 volt outlet. EMotorWerks has a (comparatively) affordable mobile quick charge solution available. Their system allows the use of single phase 240 volts main (I would imagine also 208 volt) to be able to charge CHAdeMO cars at a higher rate. The J1172 side of this unit would be pretty simple, as these kits already exist for EV conversions.

Now, to take this one step further, what about connecting two charging stations together to double power from 6.6 kW to 13.2 kW? Obviously, like the Quick220, there has to be smart circuitry to automatically pair the stations in parallel in phase or else you're tripping breakers. I know how single-phase operates, but I'd appreciate input if somebody knows a little more about 3-phase than I do. I would imagine a 3-phase panel would spread 3 consecutive single-pole breakers across all 3 phases, so two charging stations (like at a dealer) would actually split all three phases (station 1 has phase 1 & 2, and station 2 has phase 2 & 3), depending on how they land the breakers at the panel. But, then again, if a split-phase panel is used (2 of 3 phases to a panel with a neutral for single-phase loads), the two stations would act exactly like two 240 volt circuits in a house and could be rather simply paralleled.

I guess I'm asking a couple of questions.

1. Does anybody have hands-on experience with EMotorWerks products? Is it quality equipment?
2. Would an affordable, portable CHAdeMO charger be a worthwhile investment to decrease time at a level 2 charging station?
3. How can two charging stations be paralleled to double charging power of said CHAdeMO unit?

I also know a Ford Focus Electric owner working to do the same, but he also has the extra step of making his car CHAdeMO compatible.

I know I could also use a Manzanita charger and skip CHAdeMO altogether, but I'd rather not modify the high-voltage components of the i-MiEV. Plus, sticking with CHAdeMO would also allow other EVs to use this equipment.
"Bear" - 2012 Diamond White Pearl ES with QC - 2/21/2013
Solar-powered since 10/10/2013

"Koorz" - 2012 Cool Silver Metallic ES with QC - 1/5/2015

2017 Bolt EV LT in Orange with QC - 7/31/2017

Driving electric since 2-21-2013.

JoeS
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Re: Portable CHAdeMO

Sun May 03, 2015 3:04 pm

PV1, you've broached a number of separate issues. For the time being I'll pass on the dual-input concept. Ever since I realized that Mitsubishi did not upgrade the charger in their 2016 model I've been more-seriously looking at our options. I think that Mitsubishi failed to understand that with our small battery pack that a higher-power charger is all-the-more necessary if we're to venture out of our home radius, as CHAdeMO availability is still sporadic.

Two chargers that can do the trick are either Manzanita Micro or eMotorWerks. We could hook up directly to the high voltage - siai47 has successfully done that but, as PV1 pointed out, there are good arguments for simply having a CHAdeMO-compatible charger and not mess with the lethal high voltage.

EMotorWerks http://emotorwerks.com/products/online-store/category/listing/17-dc-charging-systems has a 12kW charger that I've been keeping an eye on. Last I checked, it seemed to still be a work-in-progress http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/10kw-60a-diy-charger-open-source-59210.html At this point in my life I would prefer the ready-made unit instead of playing with a kit. I don't know what the present status of their CHAdeMO adapter is. At the next EAA meeting (they're local here) I'll try to find out the latest as their attention was recently diverted by other projects.

Being able to have our own portable CHAdeMO charger and have it plug into either J1772 or a campground NEMA14-50 would certainly make longer-distance i-MiEV driving feasible.
EVs: 2 Wht/Blu SE Prem., '13 Tesla MS85, 3 156v CorbinSparrows (2 Li-ion), 24v EcoScoot(LiFePO4)
EV Conv: 156v '86 Ram PU, 144v '65 Saab 96
Hybrids: 48v1kW bike
ICE: '88 Isuzu Trooper. Mothballed: '67 Saab (orig.owner), '76 MBZ L206D RHD RV

PV1
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Re: Portable CHAdeMO

Mon May 04, 2015 4:28 am

It looks like the eMW Quickcharge 2500-HV is available and would be an excellent match to the i-MiEV charge curve. Together with their CHAdeMO controller and connector, a 25 kW CHAdeMO setup could be had for $3,997, way cheaper than Andromeda's Orca Mobile. Plus, unlike commercial units, this setup can use single-phase 240 volt or even be configured for DC input which would be good for running from a direct solar-charged battery bank.
"Bear" - 2012 Diamond White Pearl ES with QC - 2/21/2013
Solar-powered since 10/10/2013

"Koorz" - 2012 Cool Silver Metallic ES with QC - 1/5/2015

2017 Bolt EV LT in Orange with QC - 7/31/2017

Driving electric since 2-21-2013.

JoeS
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Re: Portable CHAdeMO

Mon May 04, 2015 8:42 am

PV1 - whoa! Excluding solar, the commonly-available power sources are:
NEMA 14-50 (RV campground), 80% * 50A = 40A ==> 40A * 240V = 9.6kW
NEMA 10-30 (old dryer outlet), 80% * 30A = 24A ==> 24A * 240V = 5.8kW

Edit once: math error...


Why go for larger than their 12kW charger?
EVs: 2 Wht/Blu SE Prem., '13 Tesla MS85, 3 156v CorbinSparrows (2 Li-ion), 24v EcoScoot(LiFePO4)
EV Conv: 156v '86 Ram PU, 144v '65 Saab 96
Hybrids: 48v1kW bike
ICE: '88 Isuzu Trooper. Mothballed: '67 Saab (orig.owner), '76 MBZ L206D RHD RV

PV1
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Re: Portable CHAdeMO

Mon May 04, 2015 9:13 am

JoeS wrote:Why go for larger than their 12kW charger?

It's only an extra $100 for the same size and weight, but more than double the output. They also say that the QuickCharge unit is more suited for cars unlike the Smartcharge, which they reference for motorcycles. Not sure if there is any difference in how it charges, though. Plus, say one comes across a rare 80 amp J1772 station. They can output 16-19.2 kW. Parallel charging stations would also pass 12 kW output (thought that probably deserves its own thread).

For just an extra $100, why not go for the extra power? It'd probably run cooler being used at less than 50% capacity.

Sorry for going off on that solar tangent. :oops:
"Bear" - 2012 Diamond White Pearl ES with QC - 2/21/2013
Solar-powered since 10/10/2013

"Koorz" - 2012 Cool Silver Metallic ES with QC - 1/5/2015

2017 Bolt EV LT in Orange with QC - 7/31/2017

Driving electric since 2-21-2013.

kiev
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Re: Portable CHAdeMO

Wed May 06, 2015 11:44 am

JoeS wrote:...
EMotorWerks http://emotorwerks.com/products/online-store/category/listing/17-dc-charging-systems has a 12kW charger that I've been keeping an eye on. Last I checked, it seemed to still be a work-in-progress http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/10kw-60a-diy-charger-open-source-59210.html At this point in my life I would prefer the ready-made unit instead of playing with a kit. I don't know what the present status of their CHAdeMO adapter is. At the next EAA meeting (they're local here) I'll try to find out the latest as their attention was recently diverted by other projects.
...


The open source charger started off as a noble idea, but after 2851 posts you will find many unanswered questions and unhappy campers too. i had to look very hard to find the 'open' source schematics for version 12 or so, and after reviewing them decided the design was a lot of work-in-progress and not for me.

Working with a diy team, we reverse engineered and have the schematics and source code for the 3 kW TCCH lithium chargers and they use some serious electronics to control that much power. The thought of trying to go to 10 or 12 kW for a diy charger kit is scary.
kiev = kenny's innovative electric vehicle

Palm35
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Location: Rennes, France

Re: Portable CHAdeMO

Wed May 06, 2015 2:07 pm

This CHΛdeMO (or Combo CCS) portable charger is awesome !

Watch this video !
http://youtu.be/7jV02MiWrhc

And the factsheet is here

http://design-werk.ch/wp2/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/MDC22kW_E_2.pdf

The only problem is the price.
About 16000€

JoeS
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Re: Portable CHAdeMO

Wed May 06, 2015 5:09 pm

Palm35 wrote:This CHΛdeMO (or Combo CCS) portable charger is awesome...The only problem is the price. About 16000€
...which is why I didn't even bring it up. :roll:
EVs: 2 Wht/Blu SE Prem., '13 Tesla MS85, 3 156v CorbinSparrows (2 Li-ion), 24v EcoScoot(LiFePO4)
EV Conv: 156v '86 Ram PU, 144v '65 Saab 96
Hybrids: 48v1kW bike
ICE: '88 Isuzu Trooper. Mothballed: '67 Saab (orig.owner), '76 MBZ L206D RHD RV

PV1
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Re: Portable CHAdeMO

Wed May 06, 2015 7:04 pm

That's pretty much what I have in mind, but for less money than a car. Are membership dues to the CHAdeMO group that much?

Here's how I see it, though. I'll connect pieces together to make a unit if it saves me 75% on cost.
"Bear" - 2012 Diamond White Pearl ES with QC - 2/21/2013
Solar-powered since 10/10/2013

"Koorz" - 2012 Cool Silver Metallic ES with QC - 1/5/2015

2017 Bolt EV LT in Orange with QC - 7/31/2017

Driving electric since 2-21-2013.

PV1
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Re: Portable CHAdeMO

Tue Jan 26, 2016 9:12 am

A local Ford Focus Electric owner (the same one that added CHAdeMO and a second charger to his car) has now constructed a single phase home CHAdeMO quick charger. He asked me and my LEAF-driving friend to stop by and test it out sometime soon.

It is built out of 5 Focus Electric on-board chargers (6.6 kW each) and will charge at up to 31 kW. I will try to ask him how these are isolated.

http://www.myfocuselectric.com/forum/vi ... =16&t=3189

If this setup works the way I'm thinking it does, a pair of these chargers could enable use of two public charging stations simultaneously with the i-MiEV for up to 13 kW charging rate. Two separate, isolated chargers would make that possible without a lot of interlocks and safeties in trying to parallel two stations on the AC side. Each charger is dedicated to a charging station (since nearly all public stations only handle 6.6 kW anyway) and both chargers are paralleled on the DC side. Other uses could include:

1. 40 Amp (8-9.6 kW) charging from a NEMA 14-50 outlet (RV Park).
2. 6.6 kW public charging.
3. Rapid home charging, as is the purpose of the unit linked above.
4. Possible 16-19.2 kW charging from a Tesla HPWC (not a Supercharger. Couldn't use one anyway for multiple reasons.) or Clipper Creek CS-100.
5. Road trips in non-CHAdeMO areas are now considerably faster with charging time being reduced by at least 50%.
"Bear" - 2012 Diamond White Pearl ES with QC - 2/21/2013
Solar-powered since 10/10/2013

"Koorz" - 2012 Cool Silver Metallic ES with QC - 1/5/2015

2017 Bolt EV LT in Orange with QC - 7/31/2017

Driving electric since 2-21-2013.

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