Page 2 of 3

Re: 12 kW chademo charging

Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 8:55 pm
by kiev
Howdy Ben,

i posted some info about that in the solar charging thread:

connect jumper between position 2 and 1 at relay connector, and jumper pin 3 and 10 at the chademo port to cause pack relays to close and reveal pack voltage at chademo port, positive voltage is on the right.

And here are some pitchers:

Image

Image

Image

this is a picture of the chademo port with terminals identified from my blob site,
http://fsamw.myevblog.com/i-miev-techni ... rge-notes/

Re: 12 kW chademo charging

Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 7:48 am
by bennelson
Thank you!

Re: 12 kW chademo charging

Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 9:44 am
by JoeS
BACKGROUND
Even though this topic started out as a direct-dc charging thread, the first step of this puzzle is to access the i-MiEV's high voltage (easiest/safest being through the CHAdeMO connector) and then enable the relay which connects the i-MiEV battery HV to this port. Just did that, and thank you siai47 for your groundbreaking work and kiev for the follow-up details.

Now, having access to this high voltage, here's what we can do with it -

1) Use a high voltage external charger to directly charge the i-MiEV. This allows us to charge our i-MiEV at home at a rate much faster than using the i-MiEV's built-in 3.3kW charger. This is what this thread started out being, with siai47 successfully demonstrating this.

2) Use this high voltage to feed an inverter to produce 240vac/120vac - this is what Ben is now attempting utilizing a solar inverter

3) Use solar panels directly to charge the i-MiEV battery (through a regulator)

4) Utilize external power sources to extend the range of the i-MiEV (e.g., batteries through a dc-dc or a gen set with a controlled dc hv output).

CAUTION: It goes without saying that we're dealing with high voltages which can deliver very high currents. This a a lethal combination and will kill you. Do not mess with this unless you know exactly what you're doing and taking adequate protective measures.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

All right, with that out of the way, let's focus on Ben's project - that of utilizing the i-MiEV's high voltage to feed an inverter to provide 240vac/120vac backup power.

First questions for Ben as I'm trying to remember our discussions:

1) Does your solar inverter have a stand-alone operation capability in addition to being grid-tied?
2) Does this inverter have any input-current-limiting capability, recognizing that the i-MiEV battery can produce hundreds of amps?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As an aside, this topic is allied to previous attempts to make a range extender for the i-MiEV as well as direct solar charging. For example, check out this thread on the Australian i-MiEV forum:
http://forums.aeva.asn.au/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=4383&p=58467

The solar charging topic kiev is referring to is -
http://myimiev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=3673

Edit: I just noticed that Ben is tackling this area as well:
http://myimiev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=2917&start=190#p35098

Re: 12 kW chademo charging

Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 10:21 am
by bennelson
Hi Joe!

In my case, my PV solar array uses grid-tie micro-inverters. There are many advantages to the system, including the fact that it's one of the simplest/safest types for a DIY'er to install (and thus save lots of money!)

The biggest DISADVANTAGE from a hobbyist's point of view is that it's completely unusable in an off-grid/blackout situation. I'm fine with that, as we have a great publicly owned power utility, nice steady power, and I'm just outside of a small city, rather than in a northwoods cabin somewhere. It just means we won't be using MY system as one to experiment with CHARGING an iMiEV from direct solar.

I am primarily interested in drawing power from the car for emergency backup power or for even something like powering an event somewhere that electricity isn't available. (Power a concert in a park, run something somewhere that a generator would be a nuisance, etc.)

For my idea, I would simply be using a Solar inverter to draw power from the car (at probably no more than 10 amps) and convert it to 120/240VAC. This inverter would be separate from any solar. (Although we could certainly design it so that other people doing the same type of project could be already set for adding their own solar.)

Re: 12 kW chademo charging

Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 11:54 am
by JoeS
Hi Ben, and apologies as I had forgotten that you were using microinverters.

The problem with traditional off-grid solar systems is that they are designed to power a battery bank and then use that battery bank to feed an inverter. Example is -
https://www.sma.de/en/home-systems/solar-system-off-grid.html

So, the question on the table is what inverter can use the 320vdc-360vdc input range of the i-MiEV battery pack and produce 240vac/120vac without having to sync up to an external 60Hz source?

Image

Re: 12 kW chademo charging

Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 12:18 am
by JoeS
JoeS wrote:So, the question on the table is what inverter can use the 320vdc-360vdc input range of the i-MiEV battery pack and produce 240vac/120vac without having to sync up to an external 60Hz source?
I came across this thing in my saved links and couldn't help but wonder if it might not be suitable, but I couldn't determine if it can be used in an off-grid application? (It's specs mention 60Hz grid, so I'm afraid it's probably limited to that)
http://www.electriccarpartscompany.com/2.8kW-GW-Inverter

Re: 12 kW chademo charging

Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 2:28 pm
by jray3
360 VDC input is pretty common in the solar inverter world, with maximum ratings of 420 VDC on both of my string inverters. A regular string inverter may be able to be tricked into starting up via a small pure sine wave inverter such as a UPS, which would have to continue running as a reference signal, otherwise the PV string inverter would think the grid went down and disconnect.

BUT, Sunny Boy TL series will provide battery-free solar AC power during an outage (limited to a small emergency circuit) and their Sunny Island series is compatible with high voltage batteries.
https://www.sma-america.com/products/battery-inverters/sunny-boy-storage-38-us-50-us-60-us.html

Re: 12 kW chademo charging

Posted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 8:33 am
by JoeS
jray3 wrote:360 VDC input is pretty common in the solar inverter world, with maximum ratings of 420 VDC on both of my string inverters. A regular string inverter may be able to be tricked into starting up via a small pure sine wave inverter such as a UPS, which would have to continue running as a reference signal, otherwise the PV string inverter would think the grid went down and disconnect.
BUT, Sunny Boy TL series will provide battery-free solar AC power during an outage (limited to a small emergency circuit) and their Sunny Island series is compatible with high voltage batteries.
https://www.sma-america.com/products/battery-inverters/sunny-boy-storage-38-us-50-us-60-us.html
1. Regarding an inverter providing a reference signal, I guess one would first fire up such an inverter, then attach the large solar inverter to it, and then apply the load, in that sequence. So, still need a small stand-alone inverter running off 360vdc.

2. I had looked at Sunny Island previously, but it's designed around 48vdc battery storage.

Re: 12 kW chademo charging

Posted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 8:35 am
by bennelson
I still think it would be best to NOT need a secondary inverter to "trick" the primary one on.
I'm sure that if we look around, we could find an appropriate inverter which can run off 360VDC WITHOUT needing a grid-tie connection.

Re: 12 kW chademo charging

Posted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:02 pm
by jray3
Yes Joe, the Sunny Island was based on 48V, but the new model will support packs anywhere between actual voltages of 100 and 600 VDC. Our 360V pack is right in the middle.
Here's the spec sheet.
http://files.sma.de/dl/30859/SBS3.8-5.0-6.0-US-DUS173415W.pdf