nuggetgalore
Posts: 15
Joined: Sun Apr 12, 2020 12:46 am

Re: 12 kW chademo charging

Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:34 pm

[quote="kiev"]Howdy Ben,

i posted some info about that in the solar charging thread:

connect jumper between position 2 and 1 at relay connector, and jumper pin 3 and 10 at the chademo port to cause pack relays to close and reveal pack voltage at chademo port, positive voltage is on the right.

Hi kiev,
I just stumbled across this thread and will try this to close the QC relays.
To make doubly sure I understand your notes re the jumpers correctly:
jumper one is connecting pos 2 and 1 at the relay connector and
jumper two connects pin 3 ( Gnd) with pin 10 (S2) at the chademo port.
Is it correct that this will close the +& - quickcharge contactors
but not the pre-charge and the +& - main (pack) contactors?

Edit: Sorry I posted this before reading the attached link at the above post that confirms the jumpers.

nuggetgalore
Posts: 15
Joined: Sun Apr 12, 2020 12:46 am

Re: 12 kW chademo charging

Fri Sep 18, 2020 6:52 am

[quote="kiev"]Howdy Ben,

i posted some info about that in the solar charging thread:

connect jumper between position 2 and 1 at relay connector, and jumper pin 3 and 10 at the chademo port to cause pack relays to close and reveal pack voltage at chademo port, positive voltage is on the right.

And here are some pitchers:

Image

Today I lifted the back seat and checked out the quickcharge relay MB627895
and connector [C-105].
I found as with other wire colours on the OBC that on my car the colours do not match the
information on the circuit diagrams.
Did some testing but have not physically connected 12 V to pos 1 yet, I'm waiting for feed back just in case I missed something.
Image
quote from kiev's DC Quick Charge (DCQC) Notes:
"updated: i made some jumpers to get the car to open the pack to the port pins, full pack voltage was 360.7 VDC, and the polarity was verified as shown above. In addition i tested the dcqc control relay under the rear seat and it was good; it is a general purpose G8HN-type relay by Omron with Mitsubishi part number MB627895, and the coil resistance measured 95 Ohms, it drew .13 Amps at 12.85 V. The connector has a catch-tab that was too tight for my normally super-human strength to release, so i opened up the slot to allow easier access–the connector is very tight and i’m not worried it will ever come loose.

A jumper is inserted at the relay connector between the white and blue wires in sockets 2 and 1. This uses 1/4 male spade lugs (aka faston tabs), and supplies +12 V into the pack to the coils of the big dcqc contactors. The contactors are also Omron relays, 400VDC, 200A, 36 Ohm coil.

The second jumper made of 1.5mm pins is inserted from socket 10 to socket 3 of the chademo connector, and this takes the 12V return line from the contactor coils in the pack to ground to complete the circuit and cause the contacts to close. Now the big 9mm sockets of the chademo are energized and let the sparks begin…"

kiev
Posts: 1356
Joined: Sun May 03, 2015 7:15 am
Location: The Heart o' Dixie
Contact: Website

Re: 12 kW chademo charging

Fri Sep 18, 2020 9:42 am

it almost sounds like you have found a different relay; how does your layout compare with the picture of the ECU with the relay.

What year is your car? LH or RH drive?

[edit] i checked the circuit diagrams for 2011-2013 and they were all identical to the wiring colors and connector pinout that i had posted.
kiev = kenny's innovative electric vehicle

nuggetgalore
Posts: 15
Joined: Sun Apr 12, 2020 12:46 am

Re: 12 kW chademo charging

Sun Sep 20, 2020 1:38 am

kiev wrote:it almost sounds like you have found a different relay; how does your layout compare with the picture of the ECU with the relay.

What year is your car? LH or RH drive?
2010 RH drive (Australia)

[edit] i checked the circuit diagrams for 2011-2013 and they were all identical to the wiring colors and connector pinout that i had posted.


As I have found earlier on the OBC repair, even though the OBC is the newer type (replaced due to a recall before I bought the car) very few wire colours match the circuit diagrams or the wiring on the other cars I have access to. But with the Covid restrictions still in force in Melbourne, I am just now unable to double check the quick charge relay wires on other units.

Image
It is definitely the same relay, as seen here
Image

Image
The copper blades on the left are pos 1 & 3 NO contacts
the brass blades on right are pos 2 & 4 ~ 93 Ω of the relay coil.
I see the numbering and wire colours on the circuit diagram but on my connector [C-105] I have different colours as noted in last post.
Quote from your notes re quick charge relay:
"A jumper is inserted at the relay connector between the white and blue wires in sockets 2 and 1. This uses 1/4 male spade lugs (aka faston tabs), and supplies +12 V into the pack to the coils of the big dcqc contactors. The contactors are also Omron relays, 400VDC, 200A, 36 Ohm coil."
End quote.
I measured V to ground with the relay disconnected from car:
In key position Acc (aux bat ~12.34 V) I get ~10.6 V on blue wire and ~12.2 V on orange wire
In key position ready (aux bat ~14.4) I get ~12.5 V on blue wire and ~14.3 V on orange.
wires green and purple 0 V.
Chademo pin 10 the same V as on blue wire (~ 20 Ω pin 10 to blue wire on connector)
With the relay back in [C-105] , no surprise, V on purple and orange identical through the relay coil, no change to blue and green ( NO).

I tried to fire up the QC contactor with the relay disconnected, but no success. I just had thought, the jumper I made to connect the pins on the chademo port may not be good enough,
reads resistance ok but power to drive the contactor maybe not. Is that a possible reason?
I did observe that when the relay is disconnected, the high voltage alarm on the dash stays on.
So it somehow knows that there is an issue. Error P1A14 is set (i909 tells me QC contactor circuit low) .
With the relay back in, the alarm light goes off as normal, but even though the i909 claims it did reset the error, it still is there, I doubt that the i909 actually can reset fault codes as others have found out too.

kiev
Posts: 1356
Joined: Sun May 03, 2015 7:15 am
Location: The Heart o' Dixie
Contact: Website

Re: 12 kW chademo charging

Sun Sep 20, 2020 8:31 am

It looks like the exact same relay as mine, and the connector layout is the same other than the white wire has been replaced by an Orange one in position 2.

You showed positions 1 and 3 reversed in your notes earlier, but position 1 is the blue wire and 3 is the green, and 4 is violet.

i don't recognize that black box control unit in the middle between the BMS/EV-ECU boxes and the A/C controller at the top of the picture.

i don't have access to the 2010 wiring diagrams, so indeed they could be different and include some sort of check on the QC relay coil continuity and it throws that code.

The jumper connection that i wrote up bypasses the EVECU and puts 12V from the EV control relay on the line into the high side of the DCQC contactor coils. The low side or return for those coils is routed out of the pack to pin 10 of the CHAdeMO connector and to pin 124 of the EVECU, aka S2. Adding the jumper from pin 10 to pin 3 again bypasses the EVECU and provides a path to ground for the coil low side which closes the DCQC contactors and puts voltage on the big pins 1 and 2.

So the EVECU may be throwing a code but it should have no control authority to stop this bypass, as far as i can tell from reviewing available wiring diagrams. i used the relay position 2 as the 12V source just because it was the most handy, but this bypass should work using any available direct 12V line, i.e. even with the key OFF

The voltage checks you made with the key indicate that +12V is getting to pin 2. This bypass should probably not be attempted with the car in READY.

[edit] The Orange wire may be a low current or current limited 12V source directly from the EVECU and not thru the EV Control Relay. You should ring out the Orange wire to find where it goes on the other end. In the mean time you could carefully route 12V directly from a hot-all-the-time source or from the aux battery and use that as the source instead of the Orange wire at position 2.
kiev = kenny's innovative electric vehicle

nuggetgalore
Posts: 15
Joined: Sun Apr 12, 2020 12:46 am

Re: 12 kW chademo charging

Mon Sep 21, 2020 9:42 pm

:D
kiev wrote:It looks like the exact same relay as mine, and the connector layout is the same other than the white wire has been replaced by an Orange one in position 2.

You showed positions 1 and 3 reversed in your notes earlier, but position 1 is the blue wire and 3 is the green, and 4 is violet.

Yes I got this wrong, I was confused by the voltage on the blue wire.


Image
Image
kiev wrote:i don't recognize that black box control unit in the middle between the BMS/EV-ECU boxes and the A/C controller at the top of the picture.

Image
There is a picture of this black box somewhere on a blog, but for the life of me i cannot find it again
kiev wrote:i don't have access to the 2010 wiring diagrams, so indeed they could be different and include some sort of check on the QC relay coil continuity and it throws that code.

The jumper connection that i wrote up bypasses the EVECU and puts 12V from the EV control relay on the line into the high side of the DCQC contactor coils. The low side or return for those coils is routed out of the pack to pin 10 of the CHAdeMO connector and to pin 124 of the EVECU, aka S2. Adding the jumper from pin 10 to pin 3 again bypasses the EVECU and provides a path to ground for the coil low side which closes the DCQC contactors and puts voltage on the big pins 1 and 2.

So the EVECU may be throwing a code but it should have no control authority to stop this bypass, as far as i can tell from reviewing available wiring diagrams. i used the relay position 2 as the 12V source just because it was the most handy, but this bypass should work using any available direct 12V line, i.e. even with the key OFF

The voltage checks you made with the key indicate that +12V is getting to pin 2. This bypass should probably not be attempted with the car in READY.

[edit] The Orange wire may be a low current or current limited 12V source directly from the EVECU and not thru the EV Control Relay. You should ring out the Orange wire to find where it goes on the other end. In the mean time you could carefully route 12V directly from a hot-all-the-time source or from the aux battery and use that as the source instead of the Orange wire at position 2.

Image
Key on Acc.,volts on blue wire, pin 10 and the bunch of wires on the second bridge plug are identical.
With the jumper in the chademo port (draws about 2.5 mA), V drops to zero on all other above wires.
Jumpering pos 1 (blue) with pos 2 (orange), volts at pins 1&2 at the chademo port are 340, EvBatMon confirms that pack voltage is 340 .
Thank you kenny.

nuggetgalore
Posts: 15
Joined: Sun Apr 12, 2020 12:46 am

Re: 12 kW chademo charging

Thu Sep 24, 2020 5:57 am

I posted earlier that my iCarsoft i909 did read error code P1A14 but does not reset.
I have questions to any of you owning one of these scanners:

1) Are you able to reset any DTCs?

2) did you successfully read the balance drive status down to the last cell in the pack (CMU 12 cell D).
respectively past CMU 09 cell H?

3) can you access the airbag section?

Much appreciated as I think my scanner is faulty, but have no proof.
Cheers
Edit:
I checked if the car objects to charge with the QC contactors closed and the HV alarm light on (due to the QC relay being unplugged).
That was successful so I took the punt and put it into ready and went for a drive. No obvious harm done!

kiev
Posts: 1356
Joined: Sun May 03, 2015 7:15 am
Location: The Heart o' Dixie
Contact: Website

Re: 12 kW chademo charging

Thu Sep 24, 2020 6:39 am

nuggetgalore wrote:I posted earlier that my iCarsoft i909 did read error code P1A14 but does not reset.
I have questions to any of you owning one of these scanners:

1) Are you able to reset any DTCs?Yes i have been able to reset some DTCs but not necessarily all.

2) did you successfully read the balance drive status down to the last cell in the pack (CMU 12 cell D).
respectively past CMU 09 cell H? No i can't read all the data either. i have tried to contact them about this issue but never got past the sales folks to the technical experts. The issue seems to be related to the use of an 8-bit counter for the data items, so it is limited to only 256 possible selections; there are 4 data items per page and 64 pages for selection, then it hits the limit of an 8-bit address. It would be great if they could issue an updated software for our device and i would join you in that request if you get a contact person.

3) can you access the airbag section? Haven't tried that section, but i could if need be. i would guess that is not accessible for legal liability reasons. Your unit is likely ok; it doesn't do everything like a MUT but is fairly good for the price. i looked inside to see about reverse eng it, but decided it would be too much work for too little to be gained. i bought one of their generic ICE car versions for $25 and they are nearly identical inside, same hardware the difference seems just in the software.

Much appreciated as I think my scanner is faulty, but have no proof.
Cheers
Edit:
I checked if the car objects to charge with the QC contactors closed and the HV alarm light on (due to the QC relay being unplugged).
That was successful so I took the punt and put it into ready and went for a drive. No obvious harm done!
The P1A14 is listed as a fail-safe function code in that it turns on the HV error and will block the use of DCQC, but does not prevent getting to READY

kiev = kenny's innovative electric vehicle

nuggetgalore
Posts: 15
Joined: Sun Apr 12, 2020 12:46 am

Re: 12 kW chademo charging

Thu Sep 24, 2020 7:12 am

kiev wrote:
nuggetgalore wrote:I posted earlier that my iCarsoft i909 did read error code P1A14 but does not reset.
I have questions to any of you owning one of these scanners:

1) Are you able to reset any DTCs?Yes i have been able to reset some DTCs but not necessarily all.

2) did you successfully read the balance drive status down to the last cell in the pack (CMU 12 cell D).
respectively past CMU 09 cell H? No i can't read all the data either. i have tried to contact them about this issue but never got past the sales folks to the technical experts. The issue seems to be related to the use of an 8-bit counter for the data items, so it is limited to only 256 possible selections; there are 4 data items per page and 64 pages for selection, then it hits the limit of an 8-bit address. It would be great if they could issue an updated software for our device and i would join you in that request if you get a contact person.

3) can you access the airbag section? Haven't tried that section, but i could if need be. i would guess that is not accessible for legal liability reasons. Your unit is likely ok; it doesn't do everything like a MUT but is fairly good for the price. i looked inside to see about reverse eng it, but decided it would be too much work for too little to be gained. i bought one of their generic ICE car versions for $25 and they are nearly identical inside, same hardware the difference seems just in the software.

Much appreciated as I think my scanner is faulty, but have no proof.
Cheers
Edit:
I checked if the car objects to charge with the QC contactors closed and the HV alarm light on (due to the QC relay being unplugged).
That was successful so I took the punt and put it into ready and went for a drive. No obvious harm done!
The P1A14 is listed as a fail-safe function code in that it turns on the HV error and will block the use of DCQC, but does not prevent getting to READY


Thanks for the quick reply.
Re the P1A14 , so what would happen if I connected the QC relay with jumpers and added a switched 12 V into pos 1. Obviously without the 12 V into pos 1 the car would see nothing different until pin 10 is to ground in the chademo port. But would there be a problem when the QC contactors close but the QC relay is not on?
The other option would be to get a relay to take pos 4 to ground, that closes the QC relay and have a relay that connects pin 3 with pin 10.

kiev
Posts: 1356
Joined: Sun May 03, 2015 7:15 am
Location: The Heart o' Dixie
Contact: Website

Re: 12 kW chademo charging

Thu Sep 24, 2020 5:55 pm

nuggetgalore wrote:...
Re the P1A14 , so what would happen if I connected the QC relay with jumpers and added a switched 12 V into pos 1. Obviously without the 12 V into pos 1 the car would see nothing different until pin 10 is to ground in the chademo port. But would there be a problem when the QC contactors close but the QC relay is not on?
The other option would be to get a relay to take pos 4 to ground, that closes the QC relay and have a relay that connects pin 3 with pin 10.


What is it that you are trying to do--i don't understand this mess, it doesn't make any sense to me. For all we know the Orange wire gets powered from the EV-ECU similar to how the EV Control Relay is powered. Your car has modifications from the FSM with an unknown additional black box...?
kiev = kenny's innovative electric vehicle

Return to “EVSE (Charging Stations)”