footswitch
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2018 3:13 pm
Location: Portugal

Re: Troubleshooting and repair for On-board Charger (OBC), DC-DC Converter

Tue Oct 23, 2018 10:25 am

It has been asked before, what would be an adequate resin to replace the original one in the doghouse.
After discussing this with a 3M representative, the suggested product is the following:
3M Scotchcast 2131 Electrical Insulating Resin

Around 47 EUR for 173ml (55 USD for about 6oz)

This is what I'm intending to use.

skylogger
Posts: 74
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2014 3:54 am

Re: Troubleshooting and repair for On-board Charger (OBC), DC-DC Converter

Wed Oct 24, 2018 4:15 am

footswitch:
The potting in the "doghouse" is a rubbery type substance, while the potting on the waffle board is a hard solid resin type potting.
If you are replacing the potting around the resistors, caps, and relay in the doghouse, I would still stick with a rubbery type, rather than
the hard resin type. Particularly because since we currently still do not know what the exact cause of these parts burning out, there may
be a requirement to re-work them again in the hopefully far away future. It's a lot easier to dig out the rubbery potting than to try and remove the solid resin type potting. Coulomb has suggested using a natural cure silicone sealant "silastic". I also agree that a silicone sealant would work, but make sure its the "natural cure" as the other types use an acid for curing which can cause corrosion and oxidation.
I've seen this used in HV circuits previously with no problems. It acts as a vibration buffer, and provides a barrier to dust and humidity.
If you are re-working the waffle on the bottom, There may be a benefit of using a resin that provides some heat dissipation,
but not 100% sure on that, as the semiconductors probably get enough of this already from being attached to the heatsink.

coulomb
Posts: 114
Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2018 8:32 pm
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: Troubleshooting and repair for On-board Charger (OBC), DC-DC Converter

Wed Oct 24, 2018 5:28 am

skylogger wrote: Coulomb has suggested using a natural cure silicone sealant "silastic".

That's neutral cure, as in neutral pH. The kind that cures with acetic acid is of course acidic, which in addition to the corrosion etc is conductive, at least while curing (which could take days to complete if it's a thick application, which this is). You don't want it conducting :) . It doesn't need to be Silastic brand; our local hardware store has a cheap brand that seems perfectly adequate. It's AU$6.20 (under 4€) in a 300 g tube, which is way more than you'll need. You'll also need a $2 caulking gun in the unlikely event that you don't already have one.

PV1
Site Moderator
Posts: 2947
Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2012 4:22 pm
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Contact: Website

Re: Troubleshooting and repair for On-board Charger (OBC), DC-DC Converter

Wed Oct 24, 2018 3:35 pm

DBMandrake wrote:But try pressing the trigger while the car is charging to see if it stops the charging - with my Rolec charger it definitely continues to charge while the trigger is pressed and does not stop until the plug is physically removed.

I'd have to test it again to be 100% sure, but I think my OEM Yazaki charger that came with the car is the same.

All of my EVSEs stop charging when the trigger is pressed, including my EVSEupgraded OEM cord. I had to pay attention to this detail when picking out a lock for the cord. Most locks I tried didn't fit snugly enough and would allow someone to stop the car from charging by pushing the trigger.

Regarding cutting the power off external to the car, I've been doing that every winter since I got the car. Since the meter is inside, I try to stop it just as it clicks over, and the most accurate way to do that is to flip the switch feeding the outlet (EVSE hangs inside the garage, car parked outside). Good thing the i-MiEV won't be driven much in the winter now.
:idea: :idea: :idea: :!: :!:

Dropbox maintenance in progress. If any of my links aren't working after November 17, please PM me and let me know which one isn't working.

Thanks.

DBMandrake
Posts: 84
Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2017 4:57 am
Location: Scotland

Re: Troubleshooting and repair for On-board Charger (OBC), DC-DC Converter

Wed Oct 24, 2018 10:17 pm

PV1 wrote:
DBMandrake wrote:But try pressing the trigger while the car is charging to see if it stops the charging - with my Rolec charger it definitely continues to charge while the trigger is pressed and does not stop until the plug is physically removed.

I'd have to test it again to be 100% sure, but I think my OEM Yazaki charger that came with the car is the same.

All of my EVSEs stop charging when the trigger is pressed, including my EVSEupgraded OEM cord. I had to pay attention to this detail when picking out a lock for the cord. Most locks I tried didn't fit snugly enough and would allow someone to stop the car from charging by pushing the trigger.

You're right. I checked a bit more closely and squeezing the trigger does indeed stop the car charging. :oops: The thing that was fooling me is that the green charge light remains on the EVSE, the EVSE contactor remains closed, and the charge light and fuel gauge all stay lit on the dashboard of the car.

However when I check the power consumption of the house I can see that the car pauses charging while the trigger is pressed and resumes when it is released.
- Simon

EV: 2011 Peugeot Ion
ICE: 1997 Citroen Xantia V6

PV1
Site Moderator
Posts: 2947
Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2012 4:22 pm
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Contact: Website

Re: Troubleshooting and repair for On-board Charger (OBC), DC-DC Converter

Thu Oct 25, 2018 5:18 am

That's where the difference is then. My Eaton EVSE drops the contactor out when the button is pressed. Either way, current flow stops, which is the important part.
:idea: :idea: :idea: :!: :!:

Dropbox maintenance in progress. If any of my links aren't working after November 17, please PM me and let me know which one isn't working.

Thanks.

DBMandrake
Posts: 84
Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2017 4:57 am
Location: Scotland

Re: Troubleshooting and repair for On-board Charger (OBC), DC-DC Converter

Thu Oct 25, 2018 5:23 am

PV1 wrote:That's where the difference is then. My Eaton EVSE drops the contactor out when the button is pressed. Either way, current flow stops, which is the important part.

Yes. The car stops drawing power, but the EVSE contactor remains engaged and humming away, and the charge gauge remains lit on the dashboard.

Not sure if it's related, but with my Rolec wall charger if the car is plugged in but fully charged the EVSE contactors will drop out and the light go to blue (not charging) as you would expect, but turning the key on in the car will cause the contactor in the EVSE to close and the light to change to the green charging mode! Even though the car is not capable of charging with the key on.

Yet the portable OEM EVSE that came with the car does not engage if the key is turned on while connected... There must be a bit of latitude in the spec ?
- Simon

EV: 2011 Peugeot Ion
ICE: 1997 Citroen Xantia V6

target
Posts: 1
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2018 11:12 am

Re: Troubleshooting and repair for On-board Charger (OBC), DC-DC Converter

Fri Oct 26, 2018 1:32 pm

Where are the control and proximity wires connected on the OBC? I tried to crawl through the posts but couldn't find any info.

skylogger
Posts: 74
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2014 3:54 am

Re: Troubleshooting and repair for On-board Charger (OBC), DC-DC Converter

Sat Oct 27, 2018 6:29 pm

Hi Target:
There are two connectors coming out of the OBC Towards the rear bumper.
One connector has the Active, Neutral, and Ground lines from the charging port conntector.
The other connector is called E-03 and has all the signal and supply lines from all over the car
going into the charger. In you look at page 9 of this thread, you wil see a pinout that I drew
up for E-03 and CN101 connectors. (E-03 is the external connector and CN101 is the internal connector)
Pins 9 and 5 are the ones you are interested in.
Pin 9 is the proximity pin signal.
I think In the early 2010 model, the control pin was not supported so there is no wire from the
charging port to the charger. On mid year 2010 and later I-MIEV i think the control signal goes to pin 5.
There was also mods where a resistor and diode were placed across the pin and ground of the charing port connector
so it would dummy out a signal back to the EVSE to make the I-MIEV look compliant so a EVSE or charging
station would work.

pbui19
Posts: 144
Joined: Tue Jan 07, 2014 12:17 pm

Re: Troubleshooting and repair for On-board Charger (OBC), DC-DC Converter

Tue Oct 30, 2018 2:16 pm

hi y'all - I am still struggling to convince myself that it's best to stop charge with the trigger. Most relay contact needs some sort of protection upon a disconnect, due to the inductance back discharge. Recall the old days with ignition points & condensers. Sure, you would think that Mitsu designed it so that the trigger disconnects gracefully. But from the limited reversed engineering schematic we manage to come up with so far, it seems that the trigger simply & abruptly switch off the relay, thus taxing the bypass (now heated from operation) resistors & caps.

Joes has been abruptly turning off charging with his external timer for quite a while. Do we know the statistic how the charging dis-connect of the "failed" inverter/charger ?

If in fact the trigger is simply turning off a relay, then turning-off externally would move that contact arcing outside the vehicle, where it can be mitigated, with thrysistor or suppressor etc...

A simple double-pole 240vac 20A switch costs $10, way more palatable than the inverter/charger.

Return to “Batteries and Battery Management”