tinoale
Posts: 39
Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2014 6:36 am

Re: not charging my iON, cell or CMU or BMU problems

Fri Apr 26, 2019 3:09 pm

Hi,

Thanks for the great info. I already ordered the CMU board from a reputable eBay seller, so I am not concerned about the board being another ID than 10, as he confirmed that. Rather I am a bit concerned that the board is not recognized because if was pulled from another VIN number... I guess I’ll find out...

About the diagram posted by Kiev, does it match in your experience ? So my faulty module (CMU 10 in diagbox and cells 71-74 in Canion) would be right under the passenger seat ?

I can put my car on stand no problem, but I have no clue how to support and lower the pack once unbolted :/

tinoale
Posts: 39
Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2014 6:36 am

Re: not charging my iON, cell or CMU or BMU problems

Sat Apr 27, 2019 12:47 pm

Gary12345 wrote:Since it is likely you cannot see the failure (for me the chip looked fine but did not work properly) If you want to confirm that you have the correct battery module, just disconnect the little communications connector, then reconnect the battery pack multi plugs and check the battery voltages, the one that was jumping up and down will now have disappeared.

thanks.

Hi Gary,
There are 3 connectors between the car and the battery back (besides obviously the high voltage connection). Two at the front end and one at the back.

Are you saying only one is needed to switch the car on (without "ready") and read values with Canion ? In that case, which one is it ?

That is very interesting to avoid reassembling everything and finding out after the fact that the wrong board was swapped :lol:

Gary12345
Posts: 26
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2019 4:15 am
Location: Essex, UK

Re: not charging my iON, cell or CMU or BMU problems

Tue Apr 30, 2019 6:15 am

tinoale wrote:Are you saying only one is needed to switch the car on (without "ready") and read values with Canion ? In that case, which one is it ?


Hi,

It will not go to ready without the big orange cables connected but all you need is to run diagnostics to check if you have identified the correct CMU.

So in total it has these connections on the battery pack:
- 2 twin plugs at the front, these power the heater and air con
- 2 sets of high voltage cables
- 3 multi plugs half way down one side
- one little plug at the back, this is for power for the cooling fan on the back of the battery pack
- an earth connection, on the opposite side to the multi plugs

You need the multi plugs half way down one side (if you sit in the car, its to your left) plugged in then you can use something like an iCarSoft i909 to check if you have identified the right battery pack.

This is what I did - I was 99% sure which battery module was CMU10, but to confirm i took out the battery pack, disconnected the little communications connector on CMU10, then put the battery back under the car, raised it, plugged the multi plugs in and used the iCarsoft, it said CMU10 communications error - bingo you have confirmed which CMU is the faulty one.

It was not that expensive for the new voltage monitoring chip (£18) and fitting by a mobile phone repair guy (£25) but I didnt want to waste time and the money anyway so thats how i confirmed i had the right one.

Also, ***PLEASE READ AND FOLLOW THE SAFETY INSTRUCTIONS IN THE MITSUBISHI BATTERY PACK REMOVAL DOCUMENT*** Its not my fault if you put your fingers where you shouldnt or do something in the wrong order !

Thanks,

Gary.

Gary12345
Posts: 26
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2019 4:15 am
Location: Essex, UK

Re: not charging my iON, cell or CMU or BMU problems

Tue Apr 30, 2019 6:18 am

tinoale wrote:Hi,
About the diagram posted by Kiev, does it match in your experience ? So my faulty module (CMU 10 in diagbox and cells 71-74 in Canion) would be right under the passenger seat ?

I can put my car on stand no problem, but I have no clue how to support and lower the pack once unbolted :/


Well it depends where you have the steering wheel ! But CMU10 was as per the diagram, so if you sit in the car, it was front right but not the end one, one in from that one (if that makes sense).

I jacked the car up around 14 inches, supported it on concrete blocks, then i was able to get underneath. I used a pallet with trolley wheels on the ground, used 2 trolley jacks front and back, with 2"x4" wood, and jacked these onto the pack, undid the bolts, and lowered the 2 jacks so the pack came down onto the pallet.

I have some pictures but im not sure how to share them on here?

Thanks.

tinoale
Posts: 39
Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2014 6:36 am

Re: not charging my iON, cell or CMU or BMU problems

Tue Apr 30, 2019 11:07 am

Hi Gary,

Superb info, thanks!

I have given some thoughts on how to remove the pack (with what I have at hands) and came up with the following sequence :
- put the battery in safe condition, remove 12v battery
- put the car on jack stands, remove the bottom plates, check for 0V, remove all the cables and all the bolts except the 6 big lateral bolts
- put 2 rolling boards (I ordered some that can take 400kg each) under the battery and add 2-3 layers of 2cm thick wooden boards to raise the level (the battery floor clearance is approx 15cm so rolling boards alone won't be enough)
- lower the car until the battery contacts the supporting boards (but still mainly supported by jack stands)
- unbolt the pack
- raise the car 1 jack stand position at a time, alternatively front and back, until the battery is entirely out of the car

Mouting would be the same, just reversed

Any comment welcome


I am aware of the risks, I'm an engineer and will take responsibility for whatever happens from my actions don't worry about that :)
I have the Mitsubishi dismantling manual (and some more).
I am just missing the main bolts tightening torque, have you found those ?

cheers

Gary12345
Posts: 26
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2019 4:15 am
Location: Essex, UK

Re: not charging my iON, cell or CMU or BMU problems

Thu May 02, 2019 6:02 am

Hi,

Sounds reasonable - the battery pack is fairly tall so I ended up with blocks under the wheels - 12" high both sides, still the pack could not slide out, had to put another couple of inches under the wheels one side to get it out so you may need blocks to put the axle stands on, but see how it goes. Mine was on a pallet with wheels so there was probably 9" between the battery and the floor.

You also need a reasonable about of clearance to get yourself underneath the car to undo the covers where you test and remove the high voltage cables as they are fairly far under.

Some tips from experience - be careful when putting the battery pack back in that it is going up in the right place - you can squash cables if its not quite lined up and of course the bolts wont go in - much easier to move it around before they come together.

When you get the lid off the pack you still have 115v DC in front of you - the master fuse splits the pack in half but its still dangerous. So job 1 is remove some bus bars from the end of modules, then put the plastic cover back over so it cant contact. Once you do a few of these then its totally safe.

Last tip - do it in the daylight if at all possible - I did most of mine between 8pm and midnight as thats the only time I had, but can't really recommend it !!!

No idea on bolt torques, I did them up about the same as they came out !

Thanks.

tinoale
Posts: 39
Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2014 6:36 am

Re: not charging my iON, cell or CMU or BMU problems

Thu May 02, 2019 1:59 pm

Found the torque values !

http://mmc-manuals.ru/manuals/i-miev/online/Service_Manual/2012/index_M1.htm

I have stands and a jack that goes beyond 50cm in height. I am actually chewing with the idea of removing the wheels before I drop the battery onto the rolling boards, in order to keep the battery height minimal when I start lifting the rest of the car.

DBMandrake
Posts: 132
Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2017 4:57 am
Location: Scotland

Re: not charging my iON, cell or CMU or BMU problems

Wed May 15, 2019 4:54 am

tinoale wrote:I have given some thoughts on how to remove the pack (with what I have at hands) and came up with the following sequence :
- put the battery in safe condition, remove 12v battery
- put the car on jack stands, remove the bottom plates, check for 0V, remove all the cables and all the bolts except the 6 big lateral bolts
- put 2 rolling boards (I ordered some that can take 400kg each) under the battery and add 2-3 layers of 2cm thick wooden boards to raise the level (the battery floor clearance is approx 15cm so rolling boards alone won't be enough)
- lower the car until the battery contacts the supporting boards (but still mainly supported by jack stands)
- unbolt the pack
- raise the car 1 jack stand position at a time, alternatively front and back, until the battery is entirely out of the car

Mouting would be the same, just reversed

Any comment welcome


I am aware of the risks, I'm an engineer and will take responsibility for whatever happens from my actions don't worry about that :)
I have the Mitsubishi dismantling manual (and some more).
I am just missing the main bolts tightening torque, have you found those ?

cheers

You might find the following thread about a CMU swap enlightening and very worth reading before embarking on your own swap:

https://www.speakev.com/threads/c-zero- ... ir.137750/

Lots of good information on the coding of the CMU boards as well as a novel physical approach to do the swap within a garage utilising threaded bars.

It looks like the CMU's are not VIN coded, however they are coded to their position in the pack. Rupert successfully dumped the eeprom contents of both old and new boards, and was originally planning to copy the old eeprom contents to the new board but was (so far) not successful overwriting the new eeprom, although we think we know why now. (The copying code was trying to write to the cells without first erasing them)

So instead he swapped the old eeprom onto the new board. The new CMU seems to be communicating and reporting voltages correctly however it claims that some cells are "undervoltage" and due to this the BMS will refuse to allow the pack to be charged. We think we've worked out why and have a solution but that is not test yet.

Hopefully we'll know in a few days if it's successful as it may be one of the first well documented CMU swaps of these cars. :)
- Simon

EV: 2011 Peugeot Ion
ICE: 1997 Citroen Xantia V6

DBMandrake
Posts: 132
Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2017 4:57 am
Location: Scotland

Re: not charging my iON, cell or CMU or BMU problems

Wed May 15, 2019 5:14 am

coulomb wrote:
tinoale wrote: The repair guy says that if we're going to swap the CMU_10 board we need to source a used CMU_10 board (not another number).

I've been reading the CMU firmware. It's hard going for me, but there is definitely a mechanism for "numbering" the CMUs. In fact, it seems to me that this happens automatically any time that there is a certain type of error (I can't be certain about what type of error, and it was some time ago I that I found this). But I have no idea how to trigger this process if needed. [ Edit: It's possible that the CMUs will detect say two CMU 5s and/or no CMU 10, and that this mismatch will automatically trigger the renumbering process. It has to originate from the BMU. ]

Automatic numbering like this seems unlikely - by what mechanism would they acquire consistent numbering when they left the factory ? If CMU_03 on my car is in a different location to your car how does that help with diagnostics ? :shock: There appear to be programming pads for the eeprom on the boards - much more likely that as the board is assembled on the production line a pin probe is attached to program the Canbus ID's.
So my conclusion is that you don't have to get a particular numbered CMU board, but I don't know how to make the renumbering happen. Perhaps there is a function on the MUT-3 that triggers it. Or some special CAN bus message.

Check the speakev thread I just linked to - Rupert was able to dump the contents of the eeprom which holds the Canbus numbering and while he wasn't able to overwrite it (yet) we think that's just because he forgot to erase the cells before writing them. :oops: Physically moving the old eeprom onto the new board is another approach though, which is what he has successfully done.
- Simon

EV: 2011 Peugeot Ion
ICE: 1997 Citroen Xantia V6

kiev
Posts: 919
Joined: Sun May 03, 2015 7:15 am
Location: The Heart o' Dixie
Contact: Website

Re: not charging my iON, cell or CMU or BMU problems

Wed May 15, 2019 7:46 am

the cell numbering layout chart that Rupert used (referenced on the speakev forum) is incorrect. i posted a correct version on the previous page (p4) of this very thread:

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=3943&p=38824#p38832

the most negative, CMU01, is in the right rear corner of the pack, not at the service plug.
kiev = kenny's innovative electric vehicle

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