Don wrote:For warranty purposes, what 'degree' would be considered 'abnormal'? Hard to press for any replacement unless there's a definitive 'line' and you have proof that your claim has crossed that linePhximiev wrote:The basic argument is that if the battery fails to live up to its published specifications by some degree, then you have abnormal degradation.
I guess not everyone got the indoctrination we got when we bought our first car new in May of 2012. They (a dealers representative trained in this aspect of car delivery) sat us down and explained that the car is battery powered and that the battery will degrade as it ages, by an expected (but not guaranteed) 20% or so over 5 years and that the degradation *was not covered by warranty* and then they had us sign a form saying we had been properly briefed on the battery warranty - Battery degradation of any amount was not covered by the warranty - Only 'defects' were covered. No mention of 'abnormal degradation' at all . . . . in fact, the opposite claim was made - Degradation is normal
I just don't see where anyone, anywhere would have an enforceable claim that their battery is 'failing to live up to specifications by some degree' if it still charges to 16 bars and will move the car down the road 20 miles or more - We may not like it, but we weren't promised anything more
On the other hand, iMiEV's are not Nissan Leafs - Our batteries, by and large, have not had the problems Leaf owners experienced and the batteries have performed better than we were led to expect
Further supporting Don's comment, I dug up my original paperwork that I signed when I purchased my i-MiEV brand new in February 2012, and here is a partial excerpt from the applicable paragraph -
E. Gradual Capacity Loss
The capacity of the Main Drive Lithium-ion Battery on your "i", like other commonly used Li-ion batteries, will decrease according to time and usage. This type of decrease in battery capacity is normal and not indicative of any defect or failure in your Main Drive Lithium-ion Battery. As the Main Drive Lithium-ion Battery capacity decreases, the initial cruising range of the vehicle will similarly decrease.
• Mitsubishi Motors estimates that after 5 years, the capacity of the Main Drive Lithium-ion Battery provided with your vehicle will be approximately 80% of the original capacity. After 10 years, the capacity should be approximately 70% of the original capacity. These are only estimates, and the actual capacity of your vehicle battery over time will depend on a variety of factors including how your vehicle is used, stored, and charged. Factors that can adversely affect battery capacity over time include frequent driving using aggressive acceleration/deceleration, repeated frequent use of the quick charger, and operation/storage in extreme temperature environments
There are many posts on this forum, especially those in the early days, where many of us were attempting to zero-in on the proper care and feeding of our battery pack in order to maximize its longevity. I'm happy to say that in my case this has hopefully resulted in the negligible reduction in the range of my original i-MiEV (which I sold to friends in December but still keep tabs on) with over 50K miles, and neither of our present two i-MiEVs (purchased used) exhibit any noticeable range loss (recognizing that one had a new battery put in a couple of years ago for an outright cell failure).
Mitsubishi's technique is to not display capacity loss on the fuel gauge; instead, they initially merely reduce the amount of invisible "reserve" capacity which, if you will, simply reduces how far you can drive after the fuel gauge goes to zero. Having never been there, I can't comment on that aspect. I fully expect my range to visibly diminish over the next few years.
My own rule of thumb is that in normal driving eight bars on the fuel gauge approximates RR=32 miles. After five years, I simply haven't seen that change noticeably. When the time comes in the future and I do experience that 20%-30% capacity loss, I'm comfortable knowing that I will be able to continue driving my i-MiEV normally, since on a daily basis I rarely charge over 12 bars.