Jiminy
Gold Member
Posts: 34
Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2013 6:51 am
Location: San Antonio, Tx

How many miles should first bar last on low mile battery?

Mon Nov 18, 2013 10:30 am

I have a new iMiEV that I received about a week and a half ago. It had 57 miles on it when I got it but was produced in March 2012 and sat at a dealer in Washington state for over a year. Upon full charge on Level 2 overnight I am getting 2.7 miles out of the first bar in very soft driving. I get 5 miles from the second bar but the third disappears when I turn the car back on after sitting an hour (this is after driving about 8 miles for the first two bars).

Is it normal to see three bars disappear for 8 very soft miles? Is 2.7 miles normal from the first bar? I am suspecting reduced capacity but wanted to get the collective opinion first. The car performs well with no other anomalies. Any ideas?

Thanks,
Jim
2012 iMiEV SE
2011 Nissan Leaf SV
27 Schott 240's feeding them

BillThompsonMIEV
Posts: 137
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2012 8:43 pm
Location: San Antonio, Texas

Re: How many miles should first bar last on low mile battery

Mon Nov 18, 2013 10:57 am

I also live in San Antonio. I have owned mine since August 2012. After a full charge, I usually get more miles from the first bar (sometimes as many as 9 miles). I can typically drive about 60 miles and have about 5 or 6 bars remaining. If you want, PM me with your e-mail and/or phone number and we can talk. I also have some word documents with data that might interest you. Bill Thompson.

JoeS
Site Moderator
Posts: 3148
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2011 5:47 am
Location: Los Altos Hills, California

Re: How many miles should first bar last on low mile battery

Mon Nov 18, 2013 11:24 am

Jiminy wrote:...Upon full charge on Level 2 overnight I am getting 2.7 miles out of the first bar in very soft driving. I get 5 miles from the second bar but the third disappears when I turn the car back on after sitting an hour (this is after driving about 8 miles for the first two bars).
Is it normal to see three bars disappear for 8 very soft miles? Is 2.7 miles normal from the first bar? I am suspecting reduced capacity but wanted to get the collective opinion first. The car performs well with no other anomalies. Any ideas? Thanks, Jim
Jim, congratulations on your new i-MiEV!

What you are seeing is definitely NOT normal, although it depends on the definition of "soft driving", as driving softly at 70mph would indeed give you such readings. Typically without excessive speed or climbs, you can figure 4-5miles/bar, with the first bar usually taking more miles before it drops.

I would go to your nearest Mitsu dealer and complain a bit and ask them to do a test of your traction pack which should include a capacity test.

If you are at all technically inclined, see the CaniOn threads for a bluetooth OBDII device and Android app, which will show you the status of each of the 88 cells in your battery pack.
EVs: 2 Wht/Blu SE Prem., '13 Tesla MS85, 3 156v CorbinSparrows (2 Li-ion), 24v EcoScoot(LiFePO4)
EV Conv: 156v '86 Ram PU, 144v '65 Saab 96
Hybrids: 48v1kW bike
ICE: '88 Isuzu Trooper. Mothballed: '67 Saab (orig.owner), '76 MBZ L206D RHD RV

Malm
Posts: 447
Joined: Mon Jul 22, 2013 12:16 pm
Location: Tábua - Portugal

Re: How many miles should first bar last on low mile battery

Mon Nov 18, 2013 11:27 am

If you do 8 miles with the second, you should do the same or more with the first. The second values 7,5% of SoC, the first values 8% of SoC. So, your i-MiEV is not charging to 100% SoC, maybe only 96% (i know, in a full charge SoC should be always 100%, but i-MiEV have a strange way to get its SoC). Maybe this results of unbalanced cells. Some i-MiEVs that stand still for many months became unbalanced. Charging to 100%, every day, will fix it, after some time (Months). The second hypothesis, not so probable, is that it has 4% degradation, and don't charges 17,4 kWh from 5,5% to 100%. Only 16,8 and don't charge the last 0,6 kWh, so it will not show 100% but 96%. But if it has so little mileage, this second is very improbable.

"the third disappears when I turn the car back on after sitting an hour (this is after driving about 8 miles for the first two bars)."- It happens to me all the time. I have a explanation for this, i-MiEV uses battery temperature to calculate his SoC. After charging and driving, battery temperature will rise, and after sitting an hour it recalculates his SoC, taking 5% of SoC - 1 bar (third bar values 5%). My i-MiEV, sometimes, even give me 5% SoC extra, after sitting one hour, i think it happens when temperature of the batteries go lower. This procedure (adding or taking 5% SoC) only happens when the car stand still for sometime. Happens to me all the time.

I know, very strange things i´m telling you, some don't make sense. But, remember, i'm the guy
from the future, and i've seen things that you can even imagine. If i was the canary, i shouldn´t be here anymore.
Last edited by Malm on Mon Nov 18, 2013 11:46 am, edited 4 times in total.
Riding an i-Miev since 4/2011 in Portugal, 100.000 kms.

HParkEV
Posts: 84
Joined: Thu Jun 13, 2013 9:14 pm
Location: Toronto, Ontario

Re: How many miles should first bar last on low mile battery

Mon Nov 18, 2013 11:36 am

Something is definitely wrong. I get about 4 miles out of the first bar (heater and AC off), even without much regard for efficient driving.

My car was also bought very 'old' as it was a February 2012 production that sat around for more than a year.

I guess to try to balance the battery - use it regularly, charging to 100% each time it gets down to below 8 bars and see if the situation improves after a few weeks.
2012 Ocean Blue SE (premium) Canada-spec
02/2012 production, 06/2013 delivery
Upgraded EVSE

Jiminy
Gold Member
Posts: 34
Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2013 6:51 am
Location: San Antonio, Tx

Re: How many miles should first bar last on low mile battery

Mon Nov 18, 2013 12:20 pm

Thanks for all of the replies!

Last week I started a ticket with Mitsubishi through my local dealer. Initially, the car would not reach 16 bars upon a full charge. I ran it down to two bars and charged to full and then got 16 bars but the 16th went away before I left the driveway. Well, my dealer cleared a few low battery codes and did a capacity test, none of which are in writing. They think the battery is salvageable and asked if I could run it down to two bars 4-5 times and then charge overnight to full. The battery has improved a little and today's test is what I put in the first post. I have an appt for another capacity test at my local dealer on Wednesday afternoon.

If I had to guess from what I've read here I'd say that this brand new or NOS car has a little capacity loss. It is an interesting dilemma since I would expect a perfect battery from a new car yet I already know the battery was abused.

Jim
2012 iMiEV SE
2011 Nissan Leaf SV
27 Schott 240's feeding them

fjpod
Posts: 529
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2012 2:31 am
Location: NYC

Re: How many miles should first bar last on low mile battery

Mon Nov 18, 2013 12:27 pm

I would do a few full charges and see what happens over a few weeks. What you describe is not normal. I often get 9 miles on my first pip with gentle flat driving, stop and go.

I would also open a dialogue with MM.

Jiminy
Gold Member
Posts: 34
Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2013 6:51 am
Location: San Antonio, Tx

Re: How many miles should first bar last on low mile battery

Mon Nov 18, 2013 12:54 pm

I have done now 6 discharges down to 2 bars or less and then full recharges overnight on a Level 2 EVSE. The charge indicator has shown more bars and for longer but far less range on the first bar than what y'all have reported seeing in your own cars.

I hate burning up 300 miles just for satisfying Mitsubishi's request for cycles but at least I'm learning how far I can drive at highway speeds with a (most likely) compromised battery.

I don't own an Android device but I'd sure like to see the state of the battery without having to go to the dealer. Maybe I need to search craiglist for something cheap to put Canion on.

Jim
2012 iMiEV SE
2011 Nissan Leaf SV
27 Schott 240's feeding them

Jiminy
Gold Member
Posts: 34
Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2013 6:51 am
Location: San Antonio, Tx

Re: How many miles should first bar last on low mile battery

Mon Nov 18, 2013 12:57 pm

Very good information Malm. Thank You. -Jim

[quote="Malm"]..."the third disappears when I turn the car back on after sitting an hour (this is after driving about 8 miles for the first two bars)."- It happens to me all the time. I have a explanation for this, i-MiEV uses battery temperature to calculate his SoC. After charging and driving, battery temperature will rise, and after sitting an hour it recalculates his SoC, taking 5% of SoC - 1 bar (third bar values 5%). My i-MiEV, sometimes, even give me 5% SoC extra, after sitting one hour, i think it happens when temperature of the batteries go lower. This procedure (adding or taking 5% SoC) only happens when the car stand still for sometime. Happens to me all the time...quote]
2012 iMiEV SE
2011 Nissan Leaf SV
27 Schott 240's feeding them

Don
Site Moderator
Posts: 2426
Joined: Thu May 10, 2012 3:55 pm
Location: Biloxi MS

Re: How many miles should first bar last on low mile battery

Mon Nov 18, 2013 7:15 pm

Jiminy wrote:The charge indicator has shown more bars and for longer but far less range on the first bar than what y'all have reported seeing in your own cars.

. . . . but at least I'm learning how far I can drive at highway speeds with a (most likely) compromised battery.
The reports everyone is giving you of 6 to 8 miles on the first bar are NOT at 'highway speeds'

If we can get 6 to 7 miles or so driving at 30 to 35 mph, then about half that would be about normal 'at highway speeds' - Your battery may not be as bad as you first thought

Don
2012 iMiEV SE Premium, White
2012 iMiEV SE, White
2014 Ford Transit Connect XLT SWB wagon, 14,000 miles
1994 Miata 60K miles - Soon to be sold
1979 Honda CBX six into six

Return to “Batteries and Battery Management”