PV1
Site Moderator
Posts: 2990
Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2012 4:22 pm
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Contact: Website

Re: Battery temperature management

Sat Dec 28, 2013 5:22 pm

RobertC wrote:I couldn't find any documentation that shows the i-MiEV DC fast charges slower at 40 degrees F.

40 degrees F is about 4.5 degrees C. I've found below 14 degrees C, the i-MiEV starts to reduce regenerative braking force, so it makes sense that it would limit DC quick charge. When the battery in mine is about 11-12 degrees C, regen is capped at 28 kW, and reduces more as temperature drops.

One morning, I was driving to work with more than 94% SoC in 5 degree F weather. When I went to slow down, I had almost no regen, only going a little less than halfway in the blue zone. :shock:
:idea: :idea: :idea: :!: :!:

Dropbox maintenance in progress. If any of my links aren't working after November 17, please PM me and let me know which one isn't working.

Thanks.

DonDakin
Posts: 376
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2012 7:10 pm

Re: Battery temperature management

Sat Dec 28, 2013 8:11 pm

I think the lower the temp of the battery the slower the charge. Roberts post is the first data I am seeing of this.

I think the charge rate is governed by the car to a safe value depending in battery temp. At high temps the a/c comes on to cool the battery but at low temps the current starts lower and as time goes by and the batteries heat up the charge rate increases. I don't have any documentation to back this up but it's my theory. In quebec they are studying the charge rates for L3 chargers at cold temps. I think this is why they are taking so long with the rollout of L3. It would be interesting to see canion data for cold weather L3 charging. I would provide some data myself but I have yet to get to our only L3 charger in quebec which is 40 km away.

Don.....

PV1
Site Moderator
Posts: 2990
Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2012 4:22 pm
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Contact: Website

Re: Battery temperature management

Sat Dec 28, 2013 8:54 pm

I agree with this. If the temperature gets too low, the car will heat the battery if equipped. On the 5 degree F morning I mentioned above, I gave the car 6.5 hours to gain 5 bars on level 2, 13 amps. When I went to preheat the car in the morning, it was still charging, although very close to full. Apparently the battery heater activated, causing the long charge time. However, the battery was still quite cold.

Looking at the current graphs for QC, it would seem that smaller quick chargers, 40 kW or maybe 30 kW, could charge the i-MiEV just as quickly as a 50 kW model, since the charger only spends a few minutes at full power. 50 amps is only 17 kW.

Same here, if I was comfortable driving 47 miles in the cold to the only quick charger in range, I could provide some data. I'm not concerned with the car making it, it's the availability of the quick charger, since it seems to be turned off randomly.

Robert, what was your starting SoC?
:idea: :idea: :idea: :!: :!:

Dropbox maintenance in progress. If any of my links aren't working after November 17, please PM me and let me know which one isn't working.

Thanks.

RobertC
Posts: 292
Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2012 7:35 am
Location: Winter Garden, FL

Re: Battery temperature management

Sun Dec 29, 2013 9:37 am

PV1 wrote:Robert, what was your starting SoC?
My starting SoC was 42%.
PV1 wrote:Same here, if I was comfortable driving 47 miles in the cold to the only quick charger in range, I could provide some data. I'm not concerned with the car making it, it's the availability of the quick charger, since it seems to be turned off randomly.
The other DC fast charger in New Jersey is 50 miles from my house. I can definitely make it there if I turn the heater off and use my electric blanket that plugs into the i-MiEV's 12V accessory outlet to keep me warm. I also find it helps to travel on a sunny day to allow sunlight coming through the windows to keep the car warm. I have applied Rain-X Anti-Fog to the windows and found that it keeps them from fogging up. The other DC fast charger in New Jersey is part of the Blink Network and I can check their app to make sure the charger is available before I leave.

Checking the PlugShare app, it looks like the DC fast charger in Warrendale, PA at the Eaton Power Systems Experience Center has been working recently. You could check with them before you go.
”Red” - 2018 Red Dual Motor All-Wheel Drive Tesla Model 3 - 11/27/18
“Blue” - 2018 Kinetic Blue Chevy Bolt Premier with QC - 5/13/18
"Purple" - 2012 Raspberry Metallic ES with QC - 4/10/2013

Malm
Posts: 449
Joined: Mon Jul 22, 2013 12:16 pm
Location: Tábua - Portugal

Re: Battery temperature management

Wed Jan 01, 2014 2:53 am

All my story in http://www.nissanleafpt.com/viewtopic.p ... 713#p19713, in this page some interesting (I think) data I collect of temperature pack evolution in quick charges. In English too.
Riding an i-Miev since 4/2011 in Portugal, 100.000 kms.

JoeS
Site Moderator
Posts: 3700
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2011 5:47 am
Location: Los Altos Hills, California

Re: Battery temperature management

Wed Jan 01, 2014 6:18 am

Malm wrote:All my story in http://www.nissanleafpt.com/viewtopic.p ... 713#p19713, in this page some interesting (I think) data I collect of temperature pack evolution in quick charges. In English too.
Happy New Year, Malm, and thank you for the post. For those unfamiliar with the technique, it's usually possible to translate something by copy-pasting the URL into http://translate.google.com/
EVs: 2 Wht/Blu SE Prem., '13 Tesla MS85, 3 156v CorbinSparrows (2 Li-ion), 24v EcoScoot(LiFePO4)
EV Conv: 156v '86 Ram PU, 144v '65 Saab 96
Hybrids: 48v1kW bike
ICE: '88 Isuzu Trooper. Mothballed: '67 Saab (orig.owner), '76 MBZ L206D RHD RV

Malm
Posts: 449
Joined: Mon Jul 22, 2013 12:16 pm
Location: Tábua - Portugal

Re: Battery temperature management

Wed Jan 01, 2014 8:47 am

I think my English is a little better then that of translation tools (no sure) :? . Good 2014 JoeS, and to you all.
Riding an i-Miev since 4/2011 in Portugal, 100.000 kms.

MLucas
Posts: 833
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2012 8:52 am
Location: Niagara on the Lake, Ontario, Canada

Re: Battery temperature management

Wed Jan 01, 2014 9:49 am

PV1 wrote:
RobertC wrote:I couldn't find any documentation that shows the i-MiEV DC fast charges slower at 40 degrees F.

40 degrees F is about 4.5 degrees C. I've found below 14 degrees C, the i-MiEV starts to reduce regenerative braking force, so it makes sense that it would limit DC quick charge. When the battery in mine is about 11-12 degrees C, regen is capped at 28 kW, and reduces more as temperature drops.

One morning, I was driving to work with more than 94% SoC in 5 degree F weather. When I went to slow down, I had almost no regen, only going a little less than halfway in the blue zone. :shock:


I'm confused by this. 14 degrees C is not that cold, unless you are referring to minus 14 degrees Celsius. I've been watching my battery temp on my MiEVCan and its routinely between 12 and 18 Celsius which is a nicely warm battery. Even on the coldest days my battery temp is more than enough for efficient use of the battery. I've never had a day where the regen has been reduced and we've had a cold winter here so far with -10 Celsius outside temp (14 F) being the coldest I've seen so far. Which means the battery heating system won't activate until its -15 Celsius.

Like Dylan...I went electric.

  • Purchased: June 29th, 2012
  • Mileage on June 29th, 2013 - 25,431 km / 15,802 miles
  • Mileage on June 29th, 2014 - 51,286 km / 32,616 miles

List of Oil Spills: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_oil_spills

acensor
Posts: 356
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2013 7:17 pm
Location: Southern Oregon

Re: Battery temperature management

Wed Jan 01, 2014 10:49 am

siai47 wrote:I have seen several coments in other posts about battery fans and battery temperature management on the I-MiEV. It's not clear in the sales literature or listening to videos from Mitsubishi engineers but I-MiEV's do not have any traction battery fan unless you have one of the two options---either the battery warming system or the quick charge port. The fan isn't used for any battery temperature management except in very cold temperatures (warming system or quick charge option) or during quick charge (cooling via A/C operation). If you have either option, you will hear the fan start for a few seconds each time you plug in the EVSE. .....


I don't have the quick charge port on our SE ... And have not reason to believe it has a Barry warming system (was sold off a dealer lot in a mild climate region of central California.)

When I plug it in i hear hums that sound like maybe a fan. And periodically intermittently similar sounds if I walk out into garage while it's charging. No fan? Then what are those sounds?
I thought there was. I even thought maybe liquid based temp management was going in at batteries. Is the coolant liquid system I see signs of under front hood only for the cabin heater?

Alex
Alex
{this message posted with 100% post consumer recycled electrons}
SE 2012 white with blue trim, powered by PV (~65%)
2015 Subaru Forester CVT
Two Trek street/trail bicycles optimized for mild around town use

PV1
Site Moderator
Posts: 2990
Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2012 4:22 pm
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Contact: Website

Re: Battery temperature management

Wed Jan 01, 2014 11:37 am

This video shows what the battery fan sounds like. Turn your volume up.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7p30lMFfVPI

This is the cooling pump, which you'll hear when charging and sometimes while driving. This circulates liquid coolant through the charger/DC-DC converter, motor inverter, and finally the motor.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-JwaR4GIlE

There is a coolant reservoir under the front hood. This is for the coolant-based cabin heater. This is the reason it takes the heater a minute or two before providing heat. It has to heat up the coolant loop.

There is also a coolant reservoir under the rear motor cover in the hatch. This is the coolant loop for the charger/DC-DC converter, motor drive inverter, and the motor itself. This circulates coolant to a small radiator in the front of the i-MiEV. On hot days, the fan up front may come on. I believe it was mentioned earlier in this thread.

The battery itself is air-cooled only. Active cooling only takes place during quick charging. If your i-MiEV has either the cold weather package or quick charge package (premium package on SE), you have the ductwork going to the battery pack and you'll hear the fan on plugin. There is an easy mod to bypass the car's systems and either heat or cool the battery while driving. I'll post the thread link here unless someone beats me to it.
:idea: :idea: :idea: :!: :!:

Dropbox maintenance in progress. If any of my links aren't working after November 17, please PM me and let me know which one isn't working.

Thanks.

Return to “Batteries and Battery Management”