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Easycarex

Active member
Joined
Jul 20, 2012
Messages
33
I bought a non running Citroen c0 at auction in Edinburgh last week.
Am trying to get it going, taken it to our friendly Mitsubishi Dealer in Aberdeenshire where they have run diagnostics on it.
Mithubishi technical have come back saying the cabin heater unit is faulty and stops the "ready" signal. I find it difficult to imagine why they made startup dependant on a functioning plugged in cabin heater
Mitsubishi quoted a price of £ 1500 for a new heater.
Was going to try swapping my iMiev's heater over and seeing if that worked.
There must be a car breaker somewhere who would sell a heater unit to me for a sensible price
 
I guess that's how Mitsubishi sells their cars cheaper, by making parts more expensive.

Perhaps you may be able to just unplug all the connectors from the heater and insulate them well to keep water and dirt from getting in them, then try starting the car again. The heater is located above an undercarriage shield just ahead of the battery. There shouldn't be any high voltage present as long as the car is off and unplugged. For added safety, you should disconnect the 12 volt battery.

If the heater has an internal short, it may cause an over current fault on its high voltage circuit, so the car doesn't start (heater, AC compressor, and motor inverter all get high voltage through one pair of contactors ).

As for a cheaper place to get a heater, the only option may be to get one from a wrecked car.
 
Tried disconnecting heater unit but car still won't power up
Somebody on the forum must know of a source of parts from a wrecked imiev somewhere in the EV motoring world.
 
Stan posted a video where he removed the Electric water heater from the car and swapped in a diesel one. In the video there is some information about adding some resistors on the water heater connector to get things working. Perhaps this will help you to figure out the problem.


http://youtu.be/q0QJLANDl5k

Don......
 
Is there anyway of getting in touch with Stan, would buy his old resistive heater.
Will try and connect 2 100 ohm resistors across the three terminals as shown in video before anything else.
Thanks for the help
 
If you can get the car up and running with the resistors i would suggest forgoing the electric heater and going with a diesel one if you live in a place where it gets really cold.

Its nice to have both but given the situation you could get a new diesel heater for about $600 i think from alibaba.


Anyways something to think about. There is a nice thread on the forum about fuel heaters in the imiev.

Good luck i hope you get a ready light....

Btw

I was chatting with the imiev mechanic during one of the serivce recalls and he did mention a faulty ac unit that caused a short and disabled someomes car. So at least in one case this was possible.


Don.....
 
After watching the video and looking at the schematic, it looks like the 100 kOhm resistors are used to send a water temperature measurement (~15 C) to the AC/heater ECU.
 
The resistors are 100 k ohms and it looks like they are used for the heater inlet and outlet temp sensing.

As far as i can tell there is no can bus going to the heater. There is a can bus going to the a/c.

Below is a reference for this:


http://mmc-manuals.ru/manuals/i-miev/online/Service_Manual_2011_2012/2012/index_M1.htm

Don.....
 
I was told the code, will post the number tomorrow when I give the mechanic the 2-100 ohm resistors.
No fault code is thrown when the heater is unplugged, but won't give ready ping.
 
DonDakin said:
The resistors are 100 k ohms and it looks like they are used for the heater inlet and outlet temp sensing.
As far as i can tell there is no can bus going to the heater. There is a can bus going to the a/c.
DonDakin, did you mean to say 100ohms instead of 100Kohms and it sounds as though we are we talking about completely different circuits (temp sensing vs. CANbus)?
 
Those 100k resistors are intended to mimic the thermistors in the heater for measuring water temperature at inlet and outlet. It is not for CAN buss termination.

Something else to consider is the connection from the AC ECU to the heater has a +12V line on pin 1 of the heater connector. There is a control board inside the heater that provides signal conditioning for the thermistors and the drive signal for the transistors to switch the PTC elements on/off. So does that control board also need power in order to function for the sensor measurement? or does the thermistor lead directly to the AC ECU and the conditioning is done in there?

Maybe a resistance measurement could be taken from pin 7 to 6 and 8 to 6 on the heater to see if it is within spec based upon the ambient temperature, e.g. 15C => ~100 kohm.

i wonder if they checked all the fuses for the power supplies into the AC electronic control unit, which controls the heater. Fusible link 25, fuses 10, 13, 16, 26.

i found about 230 trouble codes that can cause the car to not go to ready, and only 2 were related to the AC control unit, P0646 and P0647, AC power supply relay circuit.

i didn't find a code for the heater directly, although a CAN bus error will throw a no-ready code, and the AC/heater ECU is indeed on the CAN buss.

The troubleshooting flowchart indicates to check and verify that the CAN buss is okay as one of the first steps before jumping on down, and part of that involves the fuses--no power to the CAN, CAN error, no ready light, false error codes due to CAN not working, etc...
 
In that link i posted under section 55
Heater
Heater inspection

There is a couple of figures for the inlet and outlet temp sensing i think this is what stan hardwired with the 100 k ohm resistors.

Don.....
 
kiev said:
OP: Can you get the diagnostic trouble code numbers from the mechanic--be interesting to see what led to that conclusion

Mechanic says:
P 1A15. High voltage circuit one -heater plugged in.
Showing no codes when heater unplugged.
Mitsubishi Technical seems to think it's the faulty heater stopping car powering up.
 
This is what i found regarding this code from the online manual:

http://mmc-manuals.ru/manuals/i-miev/online/Service_Manual_2011_2012/2012/54/html/M154920060003700ENG.HTM

P1A15
High-voltage system error (1)


http://mmc-manuals.ru/manuals/i-miev/online/Service_Manual_2011_2012/2012/54/html/M154920920001401ENG.HTM


Im not an expert but from what i read the ev-ecu checks the power going to the inverter and my interpretation is that if the power is not there when it should be ie on a start request then it will set this code.

Personally i dont see what this has to do with the heater. But again im not an expert, just trying to help.

If you have a look at the references above it suggests the causes of this fault.

Don.....
 
There are 3 contactors that drive the HV cables leaving the battery. There is a Negative post contactor, a Positive post contactor, and a Pre-charge contactor. When the start command is given by the key switch, the Negative contactor engages, followed immediately by the Pre-charge contactor. Once the condenser in the MCU is charged, the Positive contactor engages, the Pre-charge contactor disengages, and the all clear is given to the EV-ECU. At this point, the READY light illuminates and the car chimes twice. This is why you hear so many clunks in the battery before the READY chime. (The brake vacuum pump also does a self-test at the READY chime, followed by creating a vacuum if necessary. Usually, the self test creates enough vacuum to keep the system at spec.)

If the heater (or the AC compressor) is shorted or active when it shouldn't be, then the car won't be able to pre-charge the condenser before closing the Positive contactor, which is why a bad heater or AC compressor can prevent the car from going into READY.

On that note, when the car is shut down, the Positive contactor disengages, and a smaller contactor/relay engages that discharges the condenser. I'm not sure of the location of this condenser, but I believe it is inside the MCU. Once the condenser is discharged, the discharge contactor disengages, followed by the Negative contactor inside the battery pack.
 
Easycarex said:
Mechanic says:
P 1A15. High voltage circuit one -heater plugged in.
Showing no codes when heater unplugged.

Heater unplugged meaning the HV connector unplugged, or the 8-pin control connector unplugged, or both?

If the HV, then just leave that unplugged and try again with the 8-pin connected.

If HV is shorted inside though it may have burned up secondary circuit paths--maybe the 100 kohm resistors will work for you.

Here is the flowchart for that code:
DIAGNOSIS PROCEDURE
STEP 1. M.U.T.-III CAN bus diagnosis
Use the M.U.T.-III to diagnose the CAN bus lines.
Q. Is the check result normal?
yes, Go to Step 3.
no, Repair the CAN bus line. (Refer to GROUP 54C - Troubleshooting .) Then go to Step 2.

STEP 2. Diagnosis code recheck after resetting CAN bus lines
Check again if the diagnosis code No. P1A15 is set to the EV-ECU.
(1)Erase the stored diagnosis code.
(2)Set the electric motor switch from the "LOCK" (OFF) position to the "ON" position.
(3)Set the electric motor switch to the "START" position, and start the electric motor unit.
(4)Check if the diagnosis code is set.
Q. Is the diagnosis code set?
yes, Go to Step 3.
no, This diagnosis is complete.

STEP 3. High-voltage fuse No.1 (Main,280A) (main battery assembly) check
Check the high-voltage fuse No.1 (Main, 280A). (Refer to .)
Q. Is the check result normal?
yes, Go to Step 4.
no, Replace the high-voltage fuse No.1 (Main, 280A).

STEP 4. Connector check: G-18, G-19 main battery connector, G-05, G-06 inverter connector
danger When servicing the high voltage system parts, always shut off the high voltage by removing the service plug (refer to ).
danger Be sure to wear the specified protective equipment when removing the service plug.

Q. Is the check result normal?
yes, Go to Step 5.
no, Replace the wiring harness.

STEP 5. Check the wiring harness between G-05, G-06 inverter connector terminal and G-18, G-19 main battery connector terminal.
danger When servicing the high voltage system parts, always shut off the high voltage by removing the service plug (refer to ).
danger Be sure to wear the specified protective equipment when removing the service plug.
Check the high-voltage line for open circuit.

Q. Is the check result normal?
yes, Go to Step 6.
no, Replace the wiring harness.

STEP 6. Diagnosis code recheck
Check again if the diagnosis code is set to the EV-ECU.
(1)Erase the stored diagnosis code.
(2)Set the electric motor switch from the "LOCK" (OFF) position to the "ON" position.
(3)Set the electric motor switch to the "START" position, and start the electric motor unit.
(4)Check if the diagnosis code is set.

Q. Is the diagnosis code set?
yes, Go to Step 7.
no, Intermittent malfunction (Refer to GROUP 00 - How to Use Troubleshooting/Inspection Service Points - How to Cope with Intermittent Malfunction .)

STEP 7. M.U.T.-III freeze frame (FFD) data
Check the freeze frame data.
Item No. 15 : EMCU: Condenser voltage
OK: 220 V or more

Q. Is the check result normal?
yes, Replace the inverter. (Refer to .) Then go to Step 8.
no, Replace the main battery assembly. (Refer to .) Then go to Step 8.

STEP 8. Diagnosis code recheck
Check again if the diagnosis code is set to the EV-ECU.
(1)Erase the stored diagnosis code.
(2)Set the electric motor switch from the "LOCK" (OFF) position to the "ON" position.
(3)Set the electric motor switch to the "START" position, and start the electric motor unit.
(4)Check if the diagnosis code is set.

Q. Is the diagnosis code set?
yes, Return to Step 1.
no, The diagnosis is complete.
 
If the heater element shorted it should have blown the 50 amp fuse dedicated to heater which is located in the battery. It might also have blown the 280 amp main fuse in the battery but I suppose the 50 amp one should have gone first.

This is shown in the following diagram:



http://mmc-manuals.ru/manuals/i-miev/online/Service_Manual_2011_2012/2012/index_M1.htm

If you measure the resistance of the heater core you might get a better idea of what happened to it. Maybe it's fine and the mechanic is barking up the wrong tree. At least the diagrams help you to debug this problem.

Don.....
 
kiev said:
Easycarex said:
Mechanic says:
P 1A15. High voltage circuit one -heater plugged in.
Showing no codes when heater unplugged.

Heater unplugged meaning the HV connector unplugged, or the 8-pin control connector unplugged, or both?

If the HV, then just leave that unplugged and try again with the 8-pin connected-

-no error codes with 12 volt connected and high voltage unplugged
Error message with high voltage plugged in and 12 volt disconnected

DIAGNOSIS PROCEDURE
STEP 1. M.U.T.-III CAN bus diagnosis
Use the M.U.T.-III to diagnose the CAN bus lines.
Q. Is the check result normal?
yes, Go to Step 3.
no, Repair the CAN bus line. (Refer to GROUP 54C - Troubleshooting .) Then go to Step 2.

STEP 2. Diagnosis code recheck after resetting CAN bus lines
Check again if the diagnosis code No. P1A15 is set to the EV-ECU.
(1)Erase the stored diagnosis code.
(2)Set the electric motor switch from the "LOCK" (OFF) position to the "ON" position.
(3)Set the electric motor switch to the "START" position, and start the electric motor unit.
(4)Check if the diagnosis code is set.
Q. Is the diagnosis code set?
yes, Go to Step 3.
no, This diagnosis is complete.

STEP 3. High-voltage fuse No.1 (Main,280A) (main battery assembly) check
Check the high-voltage fuse No.1 (Main, 280A). (Refer to .)
Q. Is the check result normal?
yes, Go to Step 4.
no, Replace the high-voltage fuse No.1 (Main, 280A).

STEP 4. Connector check: G-18, G-19 main battery connector, G-05, G-06 inverter connector
danger When servicing the high voltage system parts, always shut off the high voltage by removing the service plug (refer to ).
danger Be sure to wear the specified protective equipment when removing the service plug.

Q. Is the check result normal?
yes, Go to Step 5.
no, Replace the wiring harness.

STEP 5. Check the wiring harness between G-05, G-06 inverter connector terminal and G-18, G-19 main battery connector terminal.
danger When servicing the high voltage system parts, always shut off the high voltage by removing the service plug (refer to ).
danger Be sure to wear the specified protective equipment when removing the service plug.
Check the high-voltage line for open circuit.

Q. Is the check result normal?
yes, Go to Step 6.
no, Replace the wiring harness.

STEP 6. Diagnosis code recheck
Check again if the diagnosis code is set to the EV-ECU.
(1)Erase the stored diagnosis code.
(2)Set the electric motor switch from the "LOCK" (OFF) position to the "ON" position.
(3)Set the electric motor switch to the "START" position, and start the electric motor unit.
(4)Check if the diagnosis code is set.

Q. Is the diagnosis code set?
yes, Go to Step 7.
no, Intermittent malfunction (Refer to GROUP 00 - How to Use Troubleshooting/Inspection Service Points - How to Cope with Intermittent Malfunction .)

STEP 7. M.U.T.-III freeze frame (FFD) data
Check the freeze frame data.
Item No. 15 : EMCU: Condenser voltage
OK: 220 V or more

Q. Is the check result normal?
yes, Replace the inverter. (Refer to .) Then go to Step 8.
no, Replace the main battery assembly. (Refer to .) Then go to Step 8.

STEP 8. Diagnosis code recheck
Check again if the diagnosis code is set to the EV-ECU.
(1)Erase the stored diagnosis code.
(2)Set the electric motor switch from the "LOCK" (OFF) position to the "ON" position.
(3)Set the electric motor switch to the "START" position, and start the electric motor unit.
(4)Check if the diagnosis code is set.

Q. Is the diagnosis code set?
yes, Return to Step 1.
no, The diagnosis is complete.
 
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