Can the dealer set the car not to crawl forward?

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Quixotix

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 8, 2012
Messages
46
Location
Seattle
I highly suspect the answer to my question is NO, but if you don't ask ...

Being a manual transmission driver, I find it very annoying to have the car crawl forward (from a stop) anytime I don't have my foot firmly on the brake pedal. The owners' manual mentions that having the lights flash when you operate the remote function on the key is dealer setable. So I hold out a slim hope that other things are dealer setable. Any chance I can get my car to stop crawling?
 
Quixotix said:
Any chance I can get my car to stop crawling?
It seems to me that we could move the magnet on the pedal or the HALL IC to ZERO the creep. Maybe the the pedal has an adjustable mechanical stop. I would be tempted to put a magnet on the side of HALL IC sensor. Take a few photographs around the Hall sensor at the top of the pedal. Look for adjustment screws.

Mitsubishi probably designed the i to creep forward like a gasoline powered automatic ICE car.

Wee John said:
I did notice that if you hold the brake pedal just enough to stop the car rolling forward it will use power with the creep feature and if you press the pedal with slightly more pressure the creep feature turns off and the power meter shows no power consumption.

-- John Annen
 
FiddlerJohn said:
Quixotix said:
Any chance I can get my car to stop crawling?
Take a few photographs around the Hall sensor at the top of the pedal. Look for adjustment screws.

Mitsubishi probably designed the i to creep forward like a gasoline powered automatic ICE car.

Wee John said:
I did notice that if you hold the brake pedal just enough to stop the car rolling forward it will use power with the creep feature and if you press the pedal with slightly more pressure the creep feature turns off and the power meter shows no power consumption.

-- John Annen

I'll try to get pictures. I agree, they wanted to mimic an automatic, but it would have been so easy to make it dealer setable. I missed the thread where Wee John mentioned that, but I have noticed that my car does exactly that too.
 
Quixotix said:
... Any chance I can get my car to stop crawling?...
If there is no adjustments to move the pedal closer to the Hall sensors, the adjustment is in the EV-ECU. In the EV-ECU the adjustment is either in hardware or software.

If it is a EV-ECU hardware adjustment, there should be terminating resistor potentiometers on the signals from the two Hall sensors.

My guess is this adjustment is in EV-ECU software, and there are adjustable constants stored in flash.

Let us know what the dealer says. It seems like we could save a tiny bit of energy buy reducing the forward creep.
 
I've never owned an automatic transmission car and was also put off initially by the iMiEV's creeping; however, now that I've driven it a bit, I must admit that the creeping makes pulling into/outof the garage or parking spaces easier than alternating the brake and go-pedal, as one simply modulates the brake. Best I can tell, as WeeJohn pointed out, the brake shuts off the motor drive completely so no power is being consumed - I plunk her into neutral at stoplights, anyway.
 
Priuses creep from a stop.
LEAFs creep from a stop.
I think there's an industry mindset we are attempting to go against.
I also think the pedal at rest is already at "zero" and any attempt to "adjust it" would be like pulling up on the pedal, or sending a signal trying to make it look like a negative number, and I'm sure the ECU would just ignore you. Or light up a trouble light.
 
When you are stopped, press the break pedal a little harder and it will momentarily de-activate the creep. Notice what happens to you "power" needle when you do this. The iMiEV is great in that it has both options to creep or not to creep.
 
Even if possible, I would not deactivate this function. As mentioned in thread, it is very useful in small manouvers where you do not need to jump from one pedal to the other, just press or not on the brake. This diminishes your reaction time from 0.5 seconds to nearly 0.2 seconds and with a car that prompt to jump forward from stop at the slightest touch, believe me they have made a good choice.
 
Llecentaur said:
Even if possible, I would not deactivate this function. As mentioned in thread, it is very useful in small manouvers where you do not need to jump from one pedal to the other, just press or not on the brake. This diminishes your reaction time from 0.5 seconds to nearly 0.2 seconds and with a car that prompt to jump forward from stop at the slightest touch, believe me they have made a good choice.

+ 1. Just use the brake pedal to turn it off.
 
I've never liked the 'creep feature' either, since I've never had much experience with auto trans cars and I initially thought about finding some way to disable it - Aside from putting your foot firmly on the brakes . . . . but then with a manual trans ICE you move around at slow speeds by modulating the clutch against an already idling engine, so you're not really playing with the go pedal to slowly move the car forward or back either

I guess if I could change anything, I would like the creep mode to go away at the slightest touch of the brake, rather than having to push so hard on it while waiting at a stoplight - I do find myself with the car still trying to crawl because I'm not pressing hard enough on the brake pedal, and that's annoying . . . . wasting energy when you don't want to move

I suspect all of these sorts of features are very adjustable by playing with the computer code - *If* we knew how to go about it, I'll bet there are a hundred things we could change. I was *hoping* that once enough tech geeks bought these cars and got to playing around with them, all sorts of neat options would open up to us - I think it is happening a bit with the Leaf . . . . we just may have to wait a little longer. If we had the operations manual for the computer console they hook the car to when they do service and upgrades, I think we'd learn a lot. I know there is a way to change the click-clack 'noise' the turn signals make, for example, but I think the car might have to be hooked up to the dealers console to do it . . . .

Don
 
Even though I've become quite used to creep mode and actually like it and usually shift into N when stopped at a traffic light, what I've noticed is that it takes a bit of pedal pressure for the creep to be disabled (as evidenced by the red needle drop on the power meter), which leads me to suspect that there may be a pressure switch on the hydraulic brake line (in addition to the two switches and rotating sensor attached to the brake pedal). Anyone tried tracking that down?
 
Pretty sure you're right Joe . . . . it must be a pressure switch - I know the brake light switch doesn't disable it. If you're only pressing hard enough on the brake to prevent forward motion, the creep mode is still drawing current as you say and it's necessary to press even harder to disable it, which is something I really don't like

Don
 
Don,

I think it is the most important point - EV's don't idle, so they should not give up this advantage by having creep. If the accelerator is gently ramped up, you will be plenty controllable at slow speeds. Electric motors have so much torque and they are very predictable.
 
Llecentaur said:
Even if possible, I would not deactivate this function. As mentioned in thread, it is very useful in small manouvers where you do not need to jump from one pedal to the other, just press or not on the brake. ......

I agree. I find the creep very convenient for backing slowly into the garage (I have to back in because of where my charger in located) for the reasons you mention. Just hold foot over brake only....
Same in other locations such as backing into parking spaces.

Alex
 
randy3 said:
-- some LEAF drivers put the car into N while driving. ... just move the joystick (or mouse) to R while moving forward. The car will automatically go to N so you can coast. You can get some improvement in miles per kwh using this method.

So, can we do this in the i ?

Don't see why not, Why don't you just try it.
Not sure you'd gain anything at all let alone anything of significance ... and on a long slope of anything other than the very slightest steepness you'd actually lose out as you would lose the regenerative power normally gained back when going downhill.
Perhaps the Leaf drivers doing this are carrying over from ICE driving a technique (variously known as "Georga overdrive" or "Mexican overdrive" ;) ) which can be very significant on long downhills on ICE , but when it's applied to EV driving is useless or even counterproductive?

Alex
 
After looking though all the 'pages' of adjustable things on my dealers computer when hooked up to my car, I would bet that the creep mode is also an adjustable feature. I had him change the annunciator 'noise' for the turn signals and there was a page there where he could select the stock noise, a 'new' noise (the one I chose) or no noise at all. While he was hunting the correct page to make the change, he was telling me all about the changes his computer can make to the ECU in other ICE powered Mitsubishi cars which affect the way the auto trans performs - If he can change things like that on ICE powered cars, imagine what he can do with a computer controlled EV like we're all driving!

It would be really neat if anyone here has a cozy enough relationship with their local dealer's Mitsu tech to be able to spend an hour or two playing with their personal car while hooked up to his computer . . . . .

Don
 
Hi Don,

That would be great information.

I have a fairly good contact with my dealer who does both IMiev and Czero and is just 4 miles away from my home. Simply offered him free the second xenon kit I had bought for 30USD on EBay and he appreciated the gesture.

Now I am trying to get him to help with my webasto installation which I will pay the hours for, then I hope to be able to ask for these small settings. Problem remains that I Commands might be different between the czero and th iMiev.

Other solution is that we put some money on the table and one of us pays his mechanic to let him play on the computer and gather thos informations.

Regarding The noise change, is it now a lower tone ? Could you change the volume ?

Thanks
N
 
Don said:
After looking though all the 'pages' of adjustable things on my dealers computer when hooked up to my car .......where he could select the stock noise, a 'new' noise (the one I chose) or no noise at all. . . . .Don

Wait, wait.. :eek: Is that "stock noise" you're talking about the standard synthentic sound it makes when cruizing under 22mph that you're talking about? :D If so, I'm probably going to go into my dealer and ask him to turn it off. And in the spirit of your post (which was "what other nice-to-know adjustments are easily programmable in there for a dealer tech at his/her computer?")... if anyone can add to a wish list of what any of us even MIGHT like to have adjusted (or as you, Don, say) that we can determine CAN be adjusted, I would go in with a complete "adjust this" list.
Even if you had a four-item "change this setting list" it should cost no more than taking it in for just one.

Alex
 
Wow, some fun stuff in here - but to stay on track, I see a couple points of confusion common among newer owners:

acensor said:
Wait, wait.. :eek: Is that "stock noise" you're talking about the standard synthentic sound it makes when cruizing under 22mph that you're talking about? :D If so, I'm probably going to go into my dealer and ask him to turn it off.
No, it wasn't, and no, you're not. Don was referring to the noise made by the turn signal indicator, not the AVAS, a federally mandated safety feature which you'd be well advised not to tamper with. On the rare occasions that you can even hear it while driving, if you find it irritating perhaps you can soothe your nerves by reminding yourself of the potentially nasty liabilities that could be faced by a driver who bumps into an unwary pedestrian while piloting an EV with an illegally disabled AVAS.

acensor said:
randy3 said:
-- some LEAF drivers put the car into N while driving. ... just move the joystick (or mouse) to R while moving forward. The car will automatically go to N so you can coast. You can get some improvement in miles per kwh using this method.
So, can we do this in the i ?
Don't see why not, Why don't you just try it.
Not sure you'd gain anything at all let alone anything of significance ... and on a long slope of anything other than the very slightest steepness you'd actually lose out as you would lose the regenerative power normally gained back when going downhill.
Perhaps the Leaf drivers doing this are carrying over from ICE driving a technique (variously known as "Georga overdrive" or "Mexican overdrive" ;) ) which can be very significant on long downhills on ICE , but when it's applied to EV driving is useless or even counterproductive?

Alex
Where to begin? In order:

1. I say this only from an abundance of caution, just in case anyone reading misunderstood - you would definitely NOT put the car into R while moving forward, and I'm sure that's not what randy3 was suggesting. The i-MiEV has a much more conventional gear selector than the Leaf, so there's a good old-fashioned N on the selector.

2. You can certainly move the selector to N while in motion, I've done it often, with the intended "free wheel" coasting effect.

3. What you would gain is range. There are several threads where this has been discussed at length, but the bottom line is that when seeking to maximize range, all things being equal, coasting is best, regen is bad, and friction braking is maximum evil. If what you want to do is slow down quickly, then by all means regen is the best way to do it. But if you're headed down a slight downgrade and don't have to deal with traffic (I have a small segment like this on my daily commute), then true free wheel coasting is NOT useless, and most definitely NOT counterproductive.

Folks new to the concept get all excited about regen, but miss a key point - regen ain't free (Toyota has run some moronic Prius commercials over the years that increased confusion on this). You always lose more in kinetic energy than you gain in charge. Now, when you're nearing the end of that downgrade and approaching an intersection or other stop, you absolutely should put the car in "gear" before applying brakes, or yes, you'll only be using friction brakes, which would be hugely wasteful. Ideally, you want to "coast" in gear toward the stop, preferably in 'E' (the coasting regen in 'D' is pretty modest and probably won't stop you soon enough), or perhaps 'B' if you've waited too late, since you know the tranny's deceleration is pure regen, and only use the brake pedal near the end for the full stop. Lest I generate different confusion, yes of course the brakes start as regen and only apply friction braking with more travel/pressure, but there's really no feedback on that, so it's a little hard to gauge. And to the other question that might arise on that scenario, I say preferably in 'E' because shifting down to 'B' could slow you down too quickly (and having to feather the accelerator at that point may defeat the whole effort), and at first could slam the battery with enough current to hurt.

And again, the main caveat to all this - be mindful of surrounding traffic. Hypermiling is all well and good, but not at the expense of safety or consideration for other travelers.
 
Vike said:
(Toyota has run some moronic Prius commercials over the years that increased confusion on this).
I remember seeing a commercial a few years back where two people in a car are going down a street really slow, and every couple of seconds, would hit the brakes and say "recharge". Was that a Prius commercial I'm thinking of?
 
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