Vike
Posts: 401
Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2012 8:25 pm
Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico

Re: I-MiEV Sales

Sun Mar 03, 2013 10:36 pm

PV1 wrote:Maybe people wanted to snag up a MiEV before they would be wiped off the map by the new LEAF.
I'm afraid I'd have to agree that's a likely scenario. I was very much on the fence during the six months it took Mitsu to deliver my i-MiEV. In the end, I'm glad Nissan never brought quite good enough a deal to Albuquerque during that time, because I would have been hard pressed to pay anywhere near as much for the i as for a Leaf. What made me nervous was that I did not have great confidence in Nissan's thermal management plan for their battery, and I think events in Arizona prove that my concerns were well-founded. I do hope there'll be a major re-think of all that for Nissan's next generation effort (the 2013 being a minor update), as well as addition of a fuel-fired heater (without which I don't think EVs make much sense for most drivers in northern climes).

I really just like the i-MiEV much better, and find it more fun to sling around town than the plusher and bulkier Leaf; the Leaf is certainly the superior highway cruiser, but for heaven's sake, that's exactly what I don't want to be doing with my EV, isn't it? Fortunately for me, the big price difference at the time made the decision an easy one, but once the 2013 Leafs are readily available, that will all be over. It may be happening already - I haven't checked, but I'd imagine any Leaf SVs or SLs still on dealer lots would have to be discounted to 2013 prices, or even below given the arrival of the new S model. As for the Leaf S, it's clearly calculated to kill the i-MiEV, dropping SV features (LED headlights, hybrid heater) that some Leaf buyers would find critical (and so be driven to the higher-margin SV), but which the i-MiEV has never offered at any price. Once the Leaf S is sitting on dealer lots, the i-MiEV will cease to be competitive for all but the handful of buyers drawn to its idiosyncratic virtues and less concerned with its more obvious shortcomings.

I guess I'm saying that some temporary good sales news does not encourage me regarding the i-MiEV's prospects for survival in the U.S. The only thing that could do that would be news of a significant price drop to retake the low ground from the Leaf S. Since Mitsu raised the price in Canada, I fear that's just not in the cards. Mitsubishi isn't a charity, after all, and if they can't get their Japan-based costs down and don't consider selling i-MiEVs at a loss to be in their intermediate-term interest, such a price drop just wouldn't make sense. I hope that's not the way this goes - I'd be a lot happier if they could sell thousands of these and build up a decent market for parts and support. I'll just have to wait, bated breath, crossed fingers, and all.
2012 Silver ES w/QuickCharge+DRL/foglights, Eaton Level 2 EVSE, since 9/9/2012

gatedad11
Posts: 95
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2013 7:41 am
Location: Bucks County, PA

Re: I-MiEV Sales

Mon Mar 04, 2013 7:22 am

I leased, and strictly because of the low lease deals that came about early this year. The reduced prices of the Leaf(leftover 2012's as well as the incoming lower priced 2013 "S" models)spurred Mitsubishi to act. Mitsubishi's I was hardly the only pure EV that needed a drastic price change in order to get the cars moving off the showroom floor...all EV's, save the Tesla, have had to deal with similar issues in regards to range and price. For most people, who cannot afford upwards of $100,000 for a top of the line model, a car that only gets 65-75 miles is a tough sell at $32,000. However, when that same car drops to the very affordable level, it opens the market up to people who are curious, or who want to enjoy the benefits of an EV. In my case, again, that's how I was able to lease the I. Frankly, if I had the financial means to purchase outright, now would be the time to do it. In PA, the state government has a $3,000 cash rebate program and along with the $7500 Federal Tax rebate, that effectively lowers the purchase price by almost $11,000. And, with the market as soft as it has been for EV's, a car that lists for $32,500 should be able to be purchased for at least $5,000 under that. A $32,500 car becomes in effect an $18,000 car or around that. Even with the shortcomings of the car(and as happy as I am with the I, it has shortcomiongs) it's well worth $18,000. If they can get the range up to abut 100, and put a decent non-battery dependent heater inside the car, it would fly off the showroom floor. As it is right now, in the NE part of the country, the cold weather does compromise the car's range enough to make it a challenge for some owners to drive it consistently at the range it has. I have been seeing 70-75 miles on the Range Meter, but that number drops significantly once the heater is turned on. Out in warner areas, such as San Diego or L.A. you could prbably get away with the 70 mile range a lot easier.

Vike
Posts: 401
Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2012 8:25 pm
Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico

Re: I-MiEV Sales

Mon Mar 04, 2013 11:22 am

gatedad11 wrote:I leased, and strictly because of the low lease deals that came about early this year. The reduced prices of the Leaf(leftover 2012's as well as the incoming lower priced 2013 "S" models)spurred Mitsubishi to act.
I'm glad you got a good deal, and I might have been motivated with low enough monthly and down payments, but when I bought it was still a bit high for a "never buy" deal, which was what the crazy high residual price guaranteed. My concern with "rent only" would still hold, alas - I'm half afraid we may be in the middle of an EV bubble, so might be confronted at the end of the lease with a choice between really overpaying to buy out the car, or limited or unattractive options among new EVs. Theoretically, the tech should be getting better every year, but that doesn't guarantee we'll have better and/or more affordable EV options three years from now.

With those questions hanging over current lease options (at least for folks really interested in having an EV to keep), I wish Mitsu would just face up to the current reality and lower the purchase price rather than deferring the pain by rigging lease deals with phony residuals.
2012 Silver ES w/QuickCharge+DRL/foglights, Eaton Level 2 EVSE, since 9/9/2012

micmel2
Posts: 32
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2013 12:25 pm
Location: Union City, California

Re: I-MiEV Sales

Mon Mar 04, 2013 12:40 pm

Vike, you asked where did the 588 number come from...it is from this article.

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/108 ... t-recovers

gatedad11
Posts: 95
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2013 7:41 am
Location: Bucks County, PA

Re: I-MiEV Sales

Mon Mar 04, 2013 12:50 pm

Yeah, the residual is a joke. No one in their right mind would pay $23,500 for a car that is 2 years old, with 24,000 miles. That's not much less than the actual selling cost of the car(if one were to have simply purchaesd instead of leased). However, (and I have never leased, hence I have never purchased at end of elase) if the cars truly depreciate as they almost certainly will, then there shoudl be some interesting deals out there in a few years. I have heard that in the past some lenders/leasing companies recognize their weak bargaining position at the end of a lease and then reduce the purchsase price to a realistic figure. Others, though, from what I have heard, stay with the residual in the contract and then simply turn the cars over to wholesalers and they take their losses and move on. Frankly, I really like the car and would consider buying it after 2 years if the price were to match the actual cash/retail value. But with the slower charger, and no QC on the model I have, it is a lot less attractive than it could be....

Lou

jray3
Posts: 1623
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2011 1:05 am
Location: Tacoma area, WA
Contact: Website

Re: I-MiEV Sales

Tue Apr 02, 2013 9:02 pm

Yep, I'd have to agree with Jay at insideevs.com that this is a selloff, not a resurgence..
http://insideevs.com/march-2013-plug-in ... port-card/
my local dealer said that he's not bringing any more "i-cars", but it's looking more and more like that won't even be an option.
Am just glad that my wife doesn't read this stuff. She'da been happy to wait a year and get a bargain on an i or take a Leaf.
Me and my i, well we just rolled 19k miles today and wouldn't have it any other way! ;)
2012 i-SE "MR BEAN" 102,600 miles
2000 Mazda Miata EV, 78 kW, 17 kWh
1983 Grumman Kurbwatt EV,170 kW, 32 kWh
1983 Mazda RX-7 EV 43 kW 10 kWh
1971 "Karmann Eclectric" EV 240 kW 19 kWh
1965 Karmann Ghia Cabriolet

camiev
Posts: 79
Joined: Sat Mar 30, 2013 5:48 pm
Location: San Diego, CA

Re: I-MiEV Sales

Wed Apr 03, 2013 1:44 am

You will never know. The i is very iconic. It might become a collectible car just like the VW Bug.
Mitsu might discontinue in the US. I think we can always get parts from EU.


jray3 wrote:Yep, I'd have to agree with Jay at insideevs.com that this is a selloff, not a resurgence..
http://insideevs.com/march-2013-plug-in ... port-card/
my local dealer said that he's not bringing any more "i-cars", but it's looking more and more like that won't even be an option.
Am just glad that my wife doesn't read this stuff. She'da been happy to wait a year and get a bargain on an i or take a Leaf.


Me and my i, well we just rolled 19k miles today and wouldn't have it any other way! ;)
San Diego, CA
2012 SE Diamond White/Ocean Blue since 02/2013

Vike
Posts: 401
Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2012 8:25 pm
Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico

Re: I-MiEV Sales

Wed Apr 03, 2013 4:31 pm

jray3 wrote:Yep, I'd have to agree with Jay at insideevs.com that this is a selloff, not a resurgence..
http://insideevs.com/march-2013-plug-in ... port-card/
my local dealer said that he's not bringing any more "i-cars", but it's looking more and more like that won't even be an option.
Am just glad that my wife doesn't read this stuff. She'da been happy to wait a year and get a bargain on an i or take a Leaf.
Me and my i, well we just rolled 19k miles today and wouldn't have it any other way! ;)
It sure reads like a sell-off. Certainly they're disposing of all those 2012 i-MiEVs they forced dealers to stock (my salesman said it was two per dealership, but you can evaluate that for yourself). The only ray of hope here is that this is a necessary step before they could roll out the 2013s at a better price point, as it would have been unfair to stick the dealers with 2012 inventory under the circumstances. Even in that best case scenario, I think this means that the 2013 would be order-only for most of the country, assuming it shows up here at all. I'm less convinced than I was earlier that the price hike in Canada means they've given up on selling at a reduced price in the U.S., but the prospects are not good.

I won't rehash my litany of complaints about Mitsu's lack of marketing support for the i (I have yet to speak with an inquisitive passer-by who had any idea what the car was, or that Mitsu even had an EV), but I will say I'm enjoying the car itself more and more as I've driven it through a winter and into the current windy season (commonly referred to by non-Albuquerqueans as "spring").

Last I looked we still had a couple left in town that TrueCar says are available at 7-8k discounts, so I'm advising more adventurous and/or green friends around here that's likely one of the best EV deals we're going to see for the next couple of years at least (if you want a back seat and a trunk, anyway ;-) )
2012 Silver ES w/QuickCharge+DRL/foglights, Eaton Level 2 EVSE, since 9/9/2012

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