KiwiEV
Posts: 20
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2016 12:02 pm
Location: Bratislava, Slovakia
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Re: Upgrading the heating system to bioethanol or Diesel fuel

Fri Nov 18, 2016 9:24 am

Hi folks,

I took the plunge and installed a diesel parking heater (air heater) into my EV. So far it's day four with no problems to report. By using the hose shown at the end of the video I've managed to improve the air circulation around the car substantially.

Video: https://youtu.be/7NBMq5o_UJU

Still in "testing mode" at the moment, but it's doing better than I thought it would. Of course the real test will come in a few weeks when winter really sets in. Looking forward to it.

FrostyCanada
Posts: 109
Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2015 10:37 am
Location: The Laurentians, a skip away from Montreal, Quebec, Canada

Re: Upgrading the heating system to bioethanol or Diesel fuel

Sun Nov 27, 2016 6:21 am

Hello Mr. Kiwi,

It would be interesting to see if you could route a 2 1/2 inch pipe from your heater along the passenger side of the car (via floor).

I think there's plenty of room between the seat and door for such a pipe.

I would then plug the pipe above the fan intake (inside glove compartment?) this would pull air from your heater into the cars HVAC system.

Food for thought,
Brian
2016 i-MiEV
with navigation package, in pearl white.

Don
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Location: Biloxi MS

Re: Upgrading the heating system to bioethanol or Diesel fuel

Sun Nov 27, 2016 8:59 am

I agree that's worth a shot - Anything you can do to integrate the heater into the existing HVAC system so that it can blow air where and when you need it would be a plus. The way the diesel/water parking heater integrates into the existing HVAC system is great. The very inefficient OEM electric to water heating setup seems like such a really BAD way to heat a car . . . . until you realize that all you need is a better way to generate the heat and then you're really glad it uses a water radiator core, because you can direct heat produced outside the car to where ever you need it *and* you can choose to heat inside or outside air as desired

Ducting your air heater into the existing system sounds like something you should look into - If there was an easy way to mount the heater under the hood and then duct the heat directly into the car, that would be great . . . . but then I think that pretty well describes the diesel/water heater - The existing water lines bring the heat generated outside the car into the car and without cutting any holes

Don
2012 iMiEV SE Premium, White
2012 iMiEV SE, White
2017 Chevy Volt Premier
2014 Ford Transit Connect XLT SWB wagon, 14,000 miles
1979 Honda CBX six into six

mdbuilder
Posts: 228
Joined: Wed May 18, 2016 6:05 am
Location: Great Mills, Md.

Re: Upgrading the heating system to bioethanol or Diesel fuel

Sun Nov 27, 2016 1:12 pm

I actually consider the electric to heat water system pretty efficient, it transfers the heat very fast from a cold start. It is the direct conversion of electrical power to heat via resistance that is less efficient.
2015 Nissan NV200
2012 I-Miev SE Premium
2009 Mazda 5
2017 Toyota Prius Prime

PV1
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Location: Pittsburgh, PA
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Re: Upgrading the heating system to bioethanol or Diesel fuel

Mon Nov 28, 2016 6:18 am

Electric resistance heat is nearly 100% efficient, it's just power hungry (efficient, but not economical).

Glad to see you on the forum, Gavin. Phximiev has been linking your Google+ videos here for us to enjoy (and that, we did). Glad to hear the air heater works well.

As for ducting, having it direct air along the floor and blowing forwards would heat the entire cabin (hardest part of heating this car is keeping the floor warm). Or, routing it along the passenger side floor would force the warm air up to the recirculator intake on the factory HVAC system. However, running the recirculator in the winter is almost guaranteed to fog up the windows. For this reason, the water-based heater works better as fresh outside air is heated, but it sounds like your air heater is powerful enough for a little outside air coming in to not be an issue.
:idea: :idea: :idea: :!: :!:

Dropbox maintenance in progress. If any of my links aren't working after November 17, please PM me and let me know which one isn't working.

Thanks.

JoeS
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Re: Upgrading the heating system to bioethanol or Diesel fuel

Mon Nov 28, 2016 8:40 am

Gavin, congratulations on your installation!

We have two parallel threads going on Gavin's exploits (the other one being Kiwi in Slovakia), thus this one is only for discussing his diesel/air heater. Two comments -

1. The European version of the i-MiEV may not have the floor clearance between the seat and door that the wider North American version does for ducting the air forward.

2. Gavin, did you measure the noise level (at the driver's head position) of the heater at various fan settings?
EVs: 2 Wht/Blu SE Prem., '13 Tesla MS85, 3 156v CorbinSparrows (2 Li-ion), 24v EcoScoot(LiFePO4)
EV Conv: 156v '86 Ram PU, 144v '65 Saab 96
Hybrids: 48v1kW bike
ICE: '88 Isuzu Trooper. Mothballed: '67 Saab (orig.owner), '76 MBZ L206D RHD RV

luthus001
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2016 6:04 pm

Re: Upgrading the heating system to bioethanol or Diesel fuel

Wed Dec 28, 2016 6:36 pm

Hi Im a newcomer here. I found this thread very informing especially the part about gas and diesel heaters being identical except for fuel/air ratios. Has anyone had experience running or attempting to run alcohol in a diesel heater? (the advantage of alcohol being a cleaner fuel less odor less soot less maintenance) Im thinking it may be possible because today I stuck a vacuum cleaner to the exhaust outlet of my heater while it was running to clear out some build-up of water in the exhaust line, and it turns out I can pull the vacuum full blast at the exhaust port and flame never goes out even with heater on Low. So apparently the machine isn't all that sensitive to (excess) combustion air flow. if the only difference between ethanol and diesel is that ethanol requires a little less air, I can't see running ethanol in the diesel version being a problem other than the slightly reduced output/efficiency which in my mind isn't a big concern

sandange
Posts: 902
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Location: Quebec, Canada
Contact: Website

Re: Upgrading the heating system to bioethanol or Diesel fuel

Fri Dec 30, 2016 5:11 am

I've racked up 60,000 miles 100,000 km and into my 3rd winter with my JP Diesel water heater,
Last month I had my first problem - Not too serious ,
The clamps on the exhaust pipe rusted from the road salt I and almost lost my exhaust pipe.
Fortunately it fell off in a parking lot and I was able to recover it.

If you have the JP diesel water heater you might want to inspect or replace the exhaust pipe clamps.
I replaced mine with some stainless steel hose clamps.
So far so good.
Puey Bluey 2014 Miev
180,xxx miles, 190,xxx km
Previous EVs
Blackie - 2012 ES Miev 2 years - 67,000 km / (41,630 miles)
Total Electric miles driven 221,630 miles (257,000 km)
http://thecordstead.blogspot.ca/

luthus001
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2016 6:04 pm

Re: Upgrading the heating system to bioethanol or Diesel fuel

Wed Jan 11, 2017 5:36 pm

Finally made the effort to siphon out old fuel and switch my knockoff Espar/Webasto hot air heater to alcohol fuel. would like to report that the heater designed for diesel appears to run very well on denatured alcohol. so maybe the gas version is not necessary here. im willing to bet the diesel version runs gasoline too. I may try E85 some day. with the alcohol in there no longer is a pungent odor coming out the exhaust pipe. hot air temperature dropped from ~100 deg C (running diesel) to ~60 deg. C, no longer warping plastic, which I think is a plus. Other than the benefit of mind knowing im not adding another layer of carbon to the combustion chamber every time I use the heat, i think being able to dilute my fuel with water to suit the altitude (or just for the hell of it) can be very good, because Espar/Webasto says their heaters need special adjustments or a special fuel pump (over a hundred $$) to reduce fuel flow at high altitudes. now i can reduce fuel flow with a $.84 gallon of distilled water :D

Phximiev
Posts: 1205
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2015 7:25 pm
Location: Phoenix

Re: Upgrading the heating system to bioethanol or Diesel fuel

Wed Jan 11, 2017 6:41 pm

luthus001 wrote:Finally made the effort to siphon out old fuel and switch my knockoff Espar/Webasto hot air heater to alcohol fuel. would like to report that the heater designed for diesel appears to run very well on denatured alcohol. so maybe the gas version is not necessary here. im willing to bet the diesel version runs gasoline too. I may try E85 some day. with the alcohol in there no longer is a pungent odor coming out the exhaust pipe. hot air temperature dropped from ~100 deg C (running diesel) to ~60 deg. C, no longer warping plastic, which I think is a plus. Other than the benefit of mind knowing im not adding another layer of carbon to the combustion chamber every time I use the heat, i think being able to dilute my fuel with water to suit the altitude (or just for the hell of it) can be very good, because Espar/Webasto says their heaters need special adjustments or a special fuel pump (over a hundred $$) to reduce fuel flow at high altitudes. now i can reduce fuel flow with a $.84 gallon of distilled water :D


Luthus001:

How and/or where did you install the air heater in the car? Pics?
2012 iMIEV ES
2014 Chevy Volt

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