jsantala
Posts: 296
Joined: Fri Sep 12, 2014 9:32 pm
Location: Finland
Contact: Website

Re: How to shift gears

Thu Oct 08, 2015 4:36 am

I got my shiny new cover in the mail today and immediately went to install it.

Obviously when a car is brought to the U.S. and it's someone's job to make chances, you make changes no matter what. In this case, six of then ten locating pins or clips where a few millimeters off, so I just chopped them off and now it fits. It's still securely in place, since it really has nowhere to go under the big piece of plastic above it.

Anyway, there it is:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/7yno0vdmi4b3z ... 7.jpg?dl=0

B and C didn't magically chance into Eco and B on the dash, but no matter. ;)
kWsaki.com / EVs: Nissan Leaf 2012, Citroën Xsara 1997 (conv. 81V & 8" Series DC) and Kawasaki GPX750R 1987 (conv. 87V & ME1003 PMDC) / Used to have a Citroën C-Zero 2011

PV1
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Re: How to shift gears

Thu Oct 08, 2015 5:20 am

Looking good!

Your clip experience sounds like what Apple does with their phones. One of the things I do at work is replace broken iPhone screens. It's quite frustrating that between the iPhone 5, 5c, and 5s, the screen on each one is different :twisted: . If the clips aren't moved around, the home button or the connector is different. Same goes for the iPhone 4 and 4s, though the addition of a SIM card slot helps to justify the change. But, I digress.

I've thought about switching ECO and D, but I like that the further back I go, the more regen I get. I'm too used to D, Eco, B that I couldn't change the order.
"Bear" - 2012 Diamond White Pearl ES with QC - 2/21/2013
Solar-powered since 10/10/2013

"Koorz" - 2012 Cool Silver Metallic ES with QC - 1/5/2015

2017 Bolt EV LT in Orange with QC - 7/31/2017

Driving electric since 2-21-2013.

jsantala
Posts: 296
Joined: Fri Sep 12, 2014 9:32 pm
Location: Finland
Contact: Website

Re: How to shift gears

Thu Oct 08, 2015 9:06 am

The euro version isn't logical in any way since D had average regen, B more and C less. I don't really use D at all anymore now that I unlocked B and C. I use B in the city and C on longer distances. Since short trips include getting in an out of the car, so B should probably be the default and first selection and then C next.
kWsaki.com / EVs: Nissan Leaf 2012, Citroën Xsara 1997 (conv. 81V & 8" Series DC) and Kawasaki GPX750R 1987 (conv. 87V & ME1003 PMDC) / Used to have a Citroën C-Zero 2011

DBMandrake
Posts: 54
Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2017 4:57 am
Location: Scotland

Re: How to shift gears

Sun Apr 08, 2018 9:36 am

kiev wrote:Your test result is interesting--so it appears that, at least for your car,

1. the accelerator function is identical in all three gears, DBC,

2. but the regen level varies from greatest to least, BDC.

Now i'm curious about how the levels of acceleration are varied for us with DEB and not so for you with DBC. i wonder if it is just your car not having this since it was sold with only D? or if this is true for EU cars sold with DCB?

Replying to a really old thread I know... but I wanted to add some extra information.

I've modified my 2011 Peugeot Ion a while ago to enable the two extra drive modes and there is in fact a difference in the accelerator pedal mapping in B and C modes compared to D.

For regeneration the amount of regeneration you get from only lifting the accelerator is approximately:

C- 25%
D - 50%
B - 75%

Touching the brake pedal lightly in each mode gives the remaining regeneration before the friction brakes are applied.

For acceleration B and C map the accelerator differently above about 12 o'clock on the power meter. Below 12 o'clock there is no difference in power output between the three modes, however above about 12 o'clock the power output for a given accelerator pedal position is reduced in B & C modes (by the same amount) compared to D mode.

This can be demonstrated by holding the power meter at say 2 o'clock at 60mph in D, then switching to either B or C with the accelerator held constant - the power meter will drop significantly and so will speed. At lower power levels there is no change in power output with mode.

So the cars acceleration definitely feels more responsive in the 2nd half of the accelerator pedal range in D, and the "kick" that you get when using the 2nd half of the accelerator in D is missing in B and C.

It's hard to be sure without measuring with Canion (which I will be able to do soon - just waiting on my OBD-II dongle) but I don't think the maximum foot to the floor acceleration is reduced, rather the linearity of the throttle mapping in the 2nd half of the range is changed.

Early Ion/C-Zero have the same drive modes as the Japanese/European i-Miev (and the same order on the gear lever) and only use a mechanical block to lock out the modes however I've read that later C-Zero/Ion's (post 2012 I believe - possibly the models that switched from 88 to 80 cells) no longer have a functioning C and B mode even when mechanically unblocked.

On these cars the dashboard will still display C and B when modifying the gear lever but the car will not drive at all or only very slowly in the extra modes.

On these later Ion/C-Zero PSA claim to have "increased" regeneration, presumably meaning that D mode has similar regeneration to what the unlocked B mode had on the earlier cars, and during this reprogramming of D mode the hidden B and C modes were nobbled.
- Simon

EV: 2011 Peugeot Ion
ICE: 1997 Citroen Xantia V6

kiev
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Re: How to shift gears

Sun Apr 08, 2018 10:00 am

Since then also i have found that the accelerator pedal has two separate hall sensor channels.

One channel uses a ~5V range full scale, the other is only half that, ~2.5V full scale.

My guess is that the gear position selection causes the EV-ECU to use either the main or sub channel as the input command voltage. That is seen by your test of holding constant speed and pedal position, then switching gear position.

The Fiat 500E has a nearly identical accelerator pedal with the same hall sense scaling.
kiev = kenny's innovative electric vehicle

JoeS
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Location: Los Altos Hills, California

Re: How to shift gears

Sun Apr 08, 2018 11:11 am

kiev wrote:Since then also i have found that the accelerator pedal has two separate hall sensor channels.
One channel uses a ~5V range full scale, the other is only half that, ~2.5V full scale...
Thanks for these posts. Interesting that they would go to the trouble of having two Hall sensors instead of simply doing this in software.

The difference in gain between D or B and ECO is very noticeable (i.e., for any partial pedal position the applied power in ECO is much less), but I was under the impression that flooring the accelerator in ECO nevertheless provides full power. Guess a controlled test with CaniOn is in order...

As an aside, I'm glad to see manufacturers now realizing that many of us really like higher regen and are providing it (e.g., BoltEV). Unfortunately, rear-wheel-drive vehicles have limitations due to premature wheel lockup - but that's all nicely managed by sensors/software nowadays.
EVs: 2 Wht/Blu SE Prem., '13 Tesla MS85, 3 156v CorbinSparrows (2 Li-ion), 24v EcoScoot(LiFePO4)
EV Conv: 156v '86 Ram PU, 144v '65 Saab 96
Hybrids: 48v1kW bike
ICE: '88 Isuzu Trooper. Mothballed: '67 Saab (orig.owner), '76 MBZ L206D RHD RV

PV1
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Re: How to shift gears

Sun Apr 08, 2018 4:54 pm

The US I-MiEV most definitely goes to full power in all 3 drive modes. ECO extends the pedal travel required to go full power by roughly twice that of Drive or Brake.

My guesses on why there are two sensors are either to facilitate the different drive modes (which is easily done in software) or, more likely, as a safety measure in case one of the sensors goes open or short (which could result in no acceleration or full throttle). I'd bet the computer looks for both inputs to sweep the same to prevent unintended acceleration from a failing sensor.
"Bear" - 2012 Diamond White Pearl ES with QC - 2/21/2013
Solar-powered since 10/10/2013

"Koorz" - 2012 Cool Silver Metallic ES with QC - 1/5/2015

2017 Bolt EV LT in Orange with QC - 7/31/2017

Driving electric since 2-21-2013.

kiev
Posts: 759
Joined: Sun May 03, 2015 7:15 am
Location: The Heart o' Dixie
Contact: Website

Re: How to shift gears

Sun Apr 08, 2018 6:11 pm

i think you are right that both are read and compared for a sanity check and to provide redundancy.

The lower range sensor would also be used while in R--no need for huge torques and high acceleration while backing up...
kiev = kenny's innovative electric vehicle

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