JoeS
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Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2011 5:47 am
Location: Los Altos Hills, California

Global Warming's Terrifying New Math

Wed Aug 01, 2012 10:14 am

Quite off-topic, this article, although long, seems to get the point across better than most on the subject:

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/global-warmings-terrifying-new-math-20120719

Given the absence of political will in the world, the outlook is dire. The carbon tax never happened here, and I think it's futile to expect hurting the fossil-fuel industry (by boycotts, as suggested in the article) if demand keeps rising...

At least, driving our iMiEVs, we are making a microscopically miniscule attempt at reversing the trend. :mrgreen:
EVs: 2 Wht/Blu SE Prem., '13 Tesla MS85, 3 156v CorbinSparrows (2 Li-ion), 24v EcoScoot(LiFePO4)
EV Conv: 156v '86 Ram PU, 144v '65 Saab 96
Hybrids: 48v1kW bike
ICE: '88 Isuzu Trooper. Mothballed: '67 Saab (orig.owner), '76 MBZ L206D RHD RV

BillThompsonMIEV
Posts: 137
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2012 8:43 pm
Location: San Antonio, Texas

Re: Global Warming's Terrifying New Math

Wed Aug 01, 2012 10:38 am

Fully agree with your sentiments and the thrust of the article. I don't think of myself as wild eyed environmentalist, but the earth is definitely going through some type of climate change. Here in south Texas last year was an absolute disaster due to wild fires, and now fracking has become a big business here. One smal outgrowth of fracking here has been a series of small, but noticeable earthquakes, although the causal connection has not quite been made yet. The Miev helps a little.

MLucas
Posts: 833
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2012 8:52 am
Location: Niagara on the Lake, Ontario, Canada

Re: Global Warming's Terrifying New Math

Wed Aug 01, 2012 11:50 am

I read the National Geographic cover to cover every month and have for the last 15 years. I've read about this over and over again. I actually remember hearing about it back in the early 80's when I lived in Southern California. This article clearly spells out the problems - greed and fear of change. Few want to change their habits or their standard of living to adopt to the current climatic situation. I did learn from the article why the oil companies fight so hard to keep everyone addicted to gas - they are betting their future profits against their reserves. Everthing is making sense.

All we can do is try and hopefully through our efforts we'll lead a few more people towards changing their driving habits.

I'm going to look at getting solar panels a bit more now.

Like Dylan...I went electric.

  • Purchased: June 29th, 2012
  • Mileage on June 29th, 2013 - 25,431 km / 15,802 miles
  • Mileage on June 29th, 2014 - 51,286 km / 32,616 miles

List of Oil Spills: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_oil_spills

danpatgal
Posts: 202
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2012 10:21 am
Location: Ephrata, PA

Re: Global Warming's Terrifying New Math

Wed Aug 01, 2012 1:03 pm

A related discussion on whether "Buying Green" really makes a difference was in the NYTimes this week. Annie Leonard ("The Story of Stuff") basically said it's not enough. We need to have collective action and civic engagement. Products that are "Green" (the iMiev is no exception) allow us to continue our lifestyle as normal, with a slightly higher price and/or inconvenience. It's just not enough and may be counter-productive if such behavior allows us to feel like we're making a difference; but then retreat from demanding more widespread goverment, business, and society at large changes that will make a difference. Gernot Wagner touches on it in this same article (and his book "Will the Planet Notice"), and makes the best point of all: if you want to change behavior, use a financial incentive. See the discussion here: http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/20 ... d-citizens

But our political system is supremely inept at building those incentives ... because not only are taxes viewed as evil, but corporations fight anything that might make their prospects more meager with billions of dollars of bri ... uh, contributions to influence lawmakers and promote the fallacy that they will provide jobs and US growth. While the truth is that our tax and trade policies have enabled record profits for corporations, jobs are shipped overseas, and the US economic impact has been negligible. Unfortunately, I see most corporations - even those like Nissan, Mitsubishi, Tesla as part of the problem ... allowing us more affluent to feel we've done a good deed without taking more difficult steps. And those corporations don't mind since they're still getting our money.

Dan

Don
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Posts: 2455
Joined: Thu May 10, 2012 3:55 pm
Location: Biloxi MS

Re: Global Warming's Terrifying New Math

Wed Aug 01, 2012 2:08 pm

There are a myriad of climate related issues that need new thinking and guidance to be sure, but here in the US where we have an abundance of clean natural gas (we're compressing it into LNG and shipping it abroad out of the port of Pascagoula as we speak) one has to wonder why we have even one coal fired power plant left in North America. The reason is the same as it is for many other major problems (like the 300,000,000 guns in this country) - Lobbyists OWN our politicians

Here's what we're up against - http://www.coalisclean.com/ "It's our God given right to burn coal" - Really? I suppose it's our right to live with the terrible consequences too, like mercury falling out of the skies on our heads

We do have a choice in November - One party has been trying to make burning coal unprofitable for the past couple decades and the other has been fighting tooth and nail to keep it. Current EPA regulations have made retrofitting older coal plants more expensive than replacing them with natural gas fired plants and more and more coal plants are closing every year. The long term outlook for coal is slowly dimming . . . . unless we elect people who will overturn the current EPA mandates. That same party defeated the bill to ban incandescent bulbs earlier this year as well

The rich get richer by cutting taxes and shipping our jobs overseas and the rest of us fail to organize - If only the poor could be convinced they need to VOTE!!

Don
2012 iMiEV SE Premium, White
2012 iMiEV SE, White
2014 Ford Transit Connect XLT SWB wagon, 14,000 miles
1994 Miata 60K miles - Soon to be sold
1979 Honda CBX six into six

sandange
Posts: 843
Joined: Thu Jul 05, 2012 2:21 am
Location: Quebec, Canada
Contact: Website

Re: Global Warming's Terrifying New Math

Wed Aug 01, 2012 3:18 pm

I believe that each individuals choices can help contribute to, or
take away from the global warming phenomena that is evident.

Some people come from the camp of take all you can get.
Always some one who wants to cash in on popular events /ideas.

others

Take only as much as you need

We come from this camp
Angelika (my wife) and I chose to build our retirement home in harmony with our natural surrounding.
We live in a modest sized alternative build home. Highly insulated, designed to take advantage of passive solar gain,also
using modern day technology to minimize energy demands. But this is another story.
Yes we recycle too.
This was one choice we Made

We also chose to drive one car - the Miev - an Electric car
What were our Reasons


The Green Factor --- Absolutely
Less carbon, co2, emissions, Footprint

Economics --- Absolutely
Our previous fuel cost, usage, repairs history,
were accounted for in our choice
Anticipated fuel cost increases..etc

Substantial Government $ Grant - Huge influence

Social Responsability --- Absolutely
For our children's future evironment
To set a positive. pro active example

Driving Fun Factor ---- Absolutely
Driving the Miev is a blast
Exclusiveness of an EV,
Curious people asking questions

Convenience ---- Absolutely Not
Drive slower, often back roads
Planning longer trips incorporating charging locations
4 passenger capacity, Towing capacity
Odd time need to rent or borrow/ swap an ICE

Support EV Manufactuers - Absolutely
We want this technology here to stay
We want it to improve
We want it to Give people a choice other than an ICE vehicle

I'm sure everyone who buys/bought the I Miev have their own reasons.
OK I'll get off my soap box & sorry for any hijacks
Puey Bluey 2014 Miev
76,400 miles, 123,000 km
Previous EVs
Blackie - 2012 ES Miev 2 years - 67,000 km / (41,630 miles)
Total Electric miles driven
118,000, (190,000 km)

JoeS
Site Moderator
Posts: 3217
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2011 5:47 am
Location: Los Altos Hills, California

Re: Global Warming's Terrifying New Math

Wed Aug 01, 2012 7:36 pm

Don wrote:Here's what we're up against - http://www.coalisclean.com/ "It's our God given right to burn coal" - Really? I suppose it's our right to live with the terrible consequences too, like mercury falling out of the skies on our heads
Don, I also fell for this one not long ago. Click on a few of their links and you'll find that they're unmasking the coal industry. Nice spoof, but it sure made my blood boil when I first saw this site.
EVs: 2 Wht/Blu SE Prem., '13 Tesla MS85, 3 156v CorbinSparrows (2 Li-ion), 24v EcoScoot(LiFePO4)
EV Conv: 156v '86 Ram PU, 144v '65 Saab 96
Hybrids: 48v1kW bike
ICE: '88 Isuzu Trooper. Mothballed: '67 Saab (orig.owner), '76 MBZ L206D RHD RV

Don
Site Moderator
Posts: 2455
Joined: Thu May 10, 2012 3:55 pm
Location: Biloxi MS

Re: Global Warming's Terrifying New Math

Thu Aug 02, 2012 5:31 am

Yes Joe - All the REAL facts are posted on the website, as well as the rebuttal to all the coal industry is telling us about 'Clean Coal' . . . . the greatest oxymoron ever!

I live about 10 miles from our coal fired plant - They are scattered everywhere all along rhe Gulf Coast because it is so cheap for them to ship their fuel in using barges

Ironically, our air quality down here is excellent in every way - No sign of smog or pollutants at all. We have offshore breezes blowing in from the south 90% of the time which gives us our famous humidity . . . . and it blows the filth of our powerplants hundreds of miles inshore for folks to the north to live with - There is little push down here to shift to cleaner energy sources since coal really does seem 'clean' down here. The Southern Company which is the parent company of most of the southern electric utilities is actually in the midst of building a new $3 Billion lignite coal fired plant in central Mississippi right now, banking on an as yet unproven technology (the first such plant is under construction now in China, but has not yet generated a kwh of electricity using this new way of burning lignite) and stripping all vegetation from tens of square miles of Mississippi . . . . plus, they are asking the PSC for permission to raise the rates on customers who will never use any of that power in their area to pay for their 'experiment' - Imagine if your local milk producer was allowed raise the cost of the milk you buy just so he could build himself a new plant to lower his cost of producing milk??

My opinion - We cannot scream loud or long enough about the evils of coal . . . . especially if we drive electric cars powered by such a filthy resource - It's almost as bad for the environment as burning gasoline, except that the $$$ doesn't go to the terrorists . . . . unless you call the . . . . nevermind ;)

Don
2012 iMiEV SE Premium, White
2012 iMiEV SE, White
2014 Ford Transit Connect XLT SWB wagon, 14,000 miles
1994 Miata 60K miles - Soon to be sold
1979 Honda CBX six into six

MLucas
Posts: 833
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2012 8:52 am
Location: Niagara on the Lake, Ontario, Canada

Re: Global Warming's Terrifying New Math

Thu Aug 02, 2012 6:17 am

A related discussion on whether "Buying Green" really makes a difference was in the NYTimes this week.


If not us, then who?

I understand what you are saying but someone has to make that step forward. Does it excuse us from trying even harder to mind our energy usage because we now have an electric car? No, it doesn't. We are going to have to keep trying and keep doing more. We are going to have to lead by example and show people that an electric car is here today and is possible and is ONE of the many steps we all can take to mind our energy usage.

I know that we are all trying on this forum. I've ready many of the postings and can hear the same things from everyone of us. That is why we are willing to use our WEALTH to try and make a better tomorrow even if no one else seems to care. Even if our neighbors or in my case my brother, thinks there is no 'global warming' and there is a 'sea of oil and gas' out there if only 'they would be allowed to drill' and it's all 'Obabama's fault' they can't drive their SUVs and haul there 3000 lb trailers wherever they want to go.

We got to think of what we are doing is like Noah building the Ark. Everyone laughed and everyone objected to building an Ark on dry land, but when the rains came, everyone knew who was right. Unfortunately, there is no getting out of this problem unless everyone is involved. We'll all sink, those that have tried and those that didn't care.

Like Dylan...I went electric.

  • Purchased: June 29th, 2012
  • Mileage on June 29th, 2013 - 25,431 km / 15,802 miles
  • Mileage on June 29th, 2014 - 51,286 km / 32,616 miles

List of Oil Spills: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_oil_spills

tonymil
Posts: 271
Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2012 6:50 am
Location: Latham, NY

Re: Global Warming's Terrifying New Math

Thu Aug 02, 2012 6:58 am

A related discussion on whether "Buying Green" really makes a difference was in the NYTimes this week. Annie Leonard ("The Story of Stuff") basically said it's not enough. We need to have collective action and civic engagement. Products that are "Green" (the iMiev is no exception) allow us to continue our lifestyle as normal, with a slightly higher price and/or inconvenience. It's just not enough and may be counter-productive if such behavior allows us to feel like we're making a difference; but then retreat from demanding more widespread government, business, and society at large changes that will make a difference.


Boy, do I disagree with this sentiment. By engaging in a green lifestyle and buying green products, we not only reduce carbon emissions, we set an example. When you don't personally know anyone who is dedicated to a green lifestyle, it's easy to dismiss such people as "kooks". When you know someone living that lifestyle and you know that person to be reasonable and level-headed, suddenly such people don't seem to be "kooks" anymore. But I do agree that if we quietly live a green lifestyle our impact is minimal. That's why we need to be ostentatious about the many ways we've gone green - energy efficient lighting; lowering thermostats; limiting or not using a/c; using canvass shopping bags; driving a MiEV; etc. We need to "advertise" the green lifestyle and let everyone we know understand that such a lifestyle is a small sacrifice and collectively makes a big difference. And Sandage's post makes some very important points too. When we buy "green" we encourage a green market. Thanks to us, Mitsubishi has sold hundreds of MiEV's in North America without any marketing campaign. Mitsubishi didn't come to us, we went to it. We sought and found an economical green car. Hopefully our purchases will encourage Mitsubishi to further invest in EV technology and begin a North American marketing investment as well. If it happens, it's because of us. So keep up the chatter, not just among ourselves but with everyone we know.

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