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A bill in congress to stifle EV's and alternative energy generally

Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 11:35 am
by acensor
Might be worth looking at ‘this site, a making a call to yiur congress members....

https://secure.ucsusa.org/onlineactions ... p=&wp=(541)+488-2539&ep=&oc=&p=Mr.&s=

IMI the source .... Union of concerned scientists .... is credible.

".......Congress is threatening the progress we’ve made on electric vehicles (EVs) and renewable energy. The House tax reform bill is a dangerous blow to growing industries that reduce global warming emissions, clean our air, create jobs, and save consumers money.

In addition to cutting taxes for the wealthy at the expense of middle class and low-income families, the bill includes energy provisions that are nothing but a blatant handout to the fossil fuel industry. The bill eliminates the EV tax credit that makes these clean vehicles more affordable to consumers, just when the industry is beginning to reach a scale to compete with gasoline-powered vehicles. It will also limit the ability of clean energy developers to use solar and wind tax credits. ....."

Re: A bill in congress to stifle EV's and alternative energy generally

Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 10:00 am
by Don
Well, this is what we elected last November

'Make America Great Again' - Yup

When America WAS great, the top tax rate was twice what it is now, so it makes sense it should be lowered even more. Cut taxes on the rich, shift the burden to the middle class and do away with every social program there is

It's not a gun problem - It's a mental health problem, so lets cut what we spend on mental health care in half

When it comes to global warming, we're the only nation on the outside looking in - Hard to look at that as 'great'

Don

Re: A bill in congress to stifle EV's and alternative energy generally

Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 11:54 am
by phb10186
^ Can't disagree, and as an outsider it's all very insular and backward - but suffice to say, it doesn't mean that the bill gets passed.

... 'Make America Great Again' - the only problem with that is where they measured the baseline.

Re: A bill in congress to stifle EV's and alternative energy generally

Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 7:01 pm
by PV1
Well, at least Scotland had the sense to tell our fearless leader to "drop dead" when he threw a tantrum over an off-shore wind farm a few years back. Politics aside, it was funny.

https://www.treehugger.com/energy-polic ... tland.html

https://www.treehugger.com/green-invest ... n-lit.html

I wonder if losing the credit matters with the price of gas going back up and used LEAFs going for less than $10,000.

Re: A bill in congress to stifle EV's and alternative energy generally

Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 7:54 pm
by acensor
Hi Don.

I strongly agree. Don't get me started, or we might turn this forum into a political and social rant :roll: (albeit, IMO "justified rant.")

That said....
One rare, but documentable, occasions, calls to senators and representatives on specific issue have resulted in stopping some of these destructive irrational features of some bills.... Occasionally even stop a whole bill.
The interesting (and hopeful) fact is whether you poll registered Democrats, Republicans, or independents, the majority are in favor of renewable energy, alternatives, pollution reduction, energy independence, etc. It's only the idiot ideologies we have in office who don't.
https://www.usnews.com/news/articles/20 ... ive-energy

... that's only one of many sources documenting that grass roots support.

So maybe do make that call to your representatives?

I like the saying "better to light a single candle than to curse the darkness." ;)

Re: A bill in congress to stifle EV's and alternative energy generally

Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 1:19 pm
by phb10186
PV1 wrote:Well, at least Scotland had the sense to tell our fearless leader to "drop dead" when he threw a tantrum over an off-shore wind farm a few years back. Politics aside, it was funny.

https://www.treehugger.com/energy-polic ... tland.html

https://www.treehugger.com/green-invest ... n-lit.html

I wonder if losing the credit matters with the price of gas going back up and used LEAFs going for less than $10,000.


Firstly, The Donald wasn't POTUS at that point, secondly that was also before the Scottish Independence referendum, third that was also before Brexit... I'd assume, though I can't speak for the Scotts, that a current response would be somewhat more tamed.

However, apparently we have more wind than the rest of Europe combined in the UK, and so it would be completely dumb to not harness as much of that as we could, as solar is not as great as it could be compared to say Southern Europe, due to our latitude.

So, while we struggle in many of the same ways with grants for green energy (which we do pay in our energy bills) - it's likely not enough to develop things fast enough. One of the issues in the US must be that balance between federal level and state level power, which isn't something we struggle with to the same extent - as most laws are national - with some degree of autonomy for each of the countries that make up the UK... though London houses the UK government, it's not the same as a federal arrangement comprising 4 states.

Aside from that - any economist or policy maker would tell you that a problem such as energy over time requires a multilateral approach and not a unilateral one, and though expensive now the potential gains must be positive over chucking out carbon emissions for the rest of eternity.

Trump appears to favour the totally free market approach, which won't work with renewables, as the barriers to entry are high, and we are currently a long way away from being having developed renewables to a point where they can compete on price with burning oil... hence the need for some degree of subsidy while things adjust.

When cars first came out, not only were we burning coal and coke to heat ourselves, but gasoline was only available in tin cans, which was extremely expensive. Once cars became affordable to more people, many countries, the UK included, ripped out the old tram and trolley bus electric infrastructure - perhaps they should have kept it!

Something I discussed with some friends (including Americans in that lot), was that 'Making America Great Again' could only lead to less consumer choice, higher prices, and inferior products - as far as cars went. When you look at Trump in China, saying what he has been saying:- the only reason why the Chinese make all our stuff is economics: because they are well educated now, technically proficient, work harder than US/ European workers, and cost less in wages.

So, if the answer is to bolster domestic factories that are still producing out of date products, less efficient that can be sourced from elsewhere - that will mean you will have to take a domestically produced car, pay more for it, and have imports priced out of the market... that could be a policy that pleases a few over one term of government, but it will get old fast, and it doesn't address the main issues that need to be address in the future, and it doesn't address the causes of why the situation came to be in the first place - hence it's more-or less an admission of failure... and I don't see how that makes anyone great again.