Kuuuurija
Posts: 166
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Power Generation and Environment

Wed Sep 30, 2015 5:29 pm

Even Danish Government seems to be realized, that electric cars are not green:
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-09-29/teslas-hit-by-180-tax-in-denmark-as-green-goals-get-left-behind
Last edited by Kuuuurija on Wed Sep 30, 2015 6:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

wmcbrine
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Re: Teslas Hit by 180% Danish Tax on Cars

Wed Sep 30, 2015 5:52 pm

Kuuuurija wrote:Even Danish Government realized, that electric cars are not green:

The article says nothing of the kind.

Kuuuurija
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Re: Teslas Hit by 180% Danish Tax on Cars

Wed Sep 30, 2015 6:05 pm

But they act like they understood...

PV1
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Re: Teslas Hit by 180% Danish Tax on Cars

Wed Sep 30, 2015 6:41 pm

I bet they had some "contribution" to help push this through, or vested interests. Give diesels some help and bury everything else? It sounds like the US State of West Virginia, scrapping all alternative fuel incentives except for propane and natural gas vehicles, because an "all of the above" incentive program was designed to promote natural gas vehicles, but everyone bought electric cars instead because there is only one NGV sold in the US, and there was no NG infrastructure at the time (still few and very far in between, EVSE have higher density). Here's that original article:

Plug-in Cars will be More Expensive in West Virginia.

Buying an environmentally friendly car in West Virginia will soon be up to $7,500 more expensive.
The West Virginia House voted unanimously Saturday (4-13-2013) to eliminate the state tax credit that encouraged the sale of solar, electric, plug-in hybrid, and other alternative fuel vehicles.
The tax credit will remain for vehicles that run on natural gas, butane, propane.
Governor Earl Ray Tomblin said the credits had become too expensive. The change is expected to save $6 million in the next fiscal year.
Tomblin's administration said the credits' original purpose was to promote natural gas, which is produced in the state. Most of the electricity that powers plug-in cars is also produced in the state.
The bill also eliminates tax credits for building infrastructure for alternative fuel vehicles.


Note that West Virginia is one of the highest coal producing states in the US, which nearly all goes to power generation.

This move by the Danish government is nothing about environmental performance, it's about money. And scrapping EV incentives is the easiest thing to do.
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rkarl89203
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Re: Teslas Hit by 180% Danish Tax on Cars

Tue Oct 27, 2015 3:47 pm

Are all people in Estonia electric car haters?

wmcbrine
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Re: Teslas Hit by 180% Danish Tax on Cars

Wed Oct 28, 2015 3:45 pm

rkarl89203 wrote:Are all people in Estonia electric car haters?

Well there's only the one who posts here.

Don
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Re: Teslas Hit by 180% Danish Tax on Cars

Wed Oct 28, 2015 5:07 pm

Kuuuurija wrote:But they act like they understood...
Well then . . . . that definitely makes it a *fact* that you should share, doesn't it?

Don
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Kuuuurija
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Re: Teslas Hit by 180% Danish Tax on Cars

Thu Oct 29, 2015 1:34 pm

rkarl89203 wrote:Are all people in Estonia electric car haters?

No, there are definitely plenty of electric car lovers in Estonia. Estonia has greatest number of iMievs per capita.
I do not hate electric cars. But I see, that these cars are not so ecologically sound and economical, as some try to show.

Don wrote:Well then . . . . that definitely makes it a *fact* that you should share, doesn't it?

If there were only facts here...
I see, that many post their opinions, sentiments and attitude here. Why may not I?
Electric cars are not so green as some might think. They have lot of room to develop and to improve. Is it bad?

Don
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Re: Teslas Hit by 180% Danish Tax on Cars

Thu Oct 29, 2015 5:37 pm

Facts are good things

The ecological problem with EV's in Estonia seems to be not with the cars, which are actually quite green when operated elsewhere - The problem is how Estonia generates it's electricity

"The largest carbon emissions of Estonia in respect to global warming is from oil shale. The Estonian energy company Eesti Energia owns the largest oil shale-fuelled power plants in the world: Narva Power Plants. In Estonia in 2007 more than 90% of all power was generated from oil shale."

I can see where it might actually be cleaner to drive a gasoline ICE than an EV . . . . if you live in Estonia

Don
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jsantala
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Re: Teslas Hit by 180% Danish Tax on Cars

Fri Oct 30, 2015 5:04 am

https://www.cia.gov/library/publication ... 7rank.html

Estonia does seem to be really dirty in it's electricity production. We here in Finland could also do better at around 50% fossils. Denmark is around 60% wheras US and UK are at 76%. I wish we could all be more like Sweden, Norway and Iceland, with around 5-7% only.
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