PV1
Site Moderator
Posts: 2992
Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2012 4:22 pm
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Contact: Website

Re: About the Solar and other Energy costs in Europe

Wed Sep 09, 2015 5:53 pm

Ha, you would think. In the US, the century old fossil fuel companies STILL receive Federal subsidies in the form of tax breaks, and possibly some under the table checks. Our gas prices are currently less than $2.50 per gallon (3.8 liters), even before world oil prices dropped.

Of course, fossil fuels and renewables are both dwarfed by the promised funds set aside for hydrogen.
:idea: :idea: :idea: :!: :!:

Dropbox maintenance in progress. If any of my links aren't working after November 17, please PM me and let me know which one isn't working.

Thanks.

Aerowhatt
Gold Member
Posts: 444
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2015 1:52 pm

Re: About the Solar and other Energy costs in Europe

Fri Sep 11, 2015 7:03 am

Kuuuurija wrote:I have no doubt, that for producers the renewable energy might be profitable, especially when taxpayer pays enough subsidies for that. Our most famous wind energy producers fly their private helicopter and, believe me, there is not too many people here in Estonia who can afford that. Those windmill kings were almost broke just before they entered into wind energy business.

Your calculation includes subsidies too. I do not know how much your government pays subsidies directly to the producers of the renewable energy and to the companies who produce equipment for renewable power plants.

If the renewable was efficient per se, there was no need for any subsidies and governments rather collect some extra taxes on this business.


I included cost benefit without the subsides. It's a good investment and a low cost for the electricity even without the subsidies. What you describe looks like collusion and corruption between some government officials and these "windmill kings". This type of corruption has been going on in all aspects of the energy sector (coal, oil, gas, etc) for decades. It's a shame that it is giving cleaner more sustainable energy a bad name in your country.

We had it here in the 1980's with solar heating equipment government subsidies. The price of solar heating jumped up by the same percentage as the subsidies and when the subsides ended, the price of the solar heating went back down again. Companies with low moral character were making huge profits by stealing the customers subsidies through inflated pricing. Human nature is the culprit of your well founded disappointment, not renewable technology itself. The percieved need for subsidies is to accelerate the adoption and proliferation of renewable energy usage faster than what it would be without them. A great deal spreads faster than a good one. I agree with you that in large measure subsidies do not work since corruption steps in to take advantage wherever possible. In your case undermining the credibility of the renewable energy itself (giving it a black eye) reducing public support and adoption. The opposite of what the subsides were intended to do.

Aerowhatt
(July) 2014 cool silver ES, acquired new 4/2015 (40.9ah at ~34K miles)
(Aug) 2014 Labrador Black Pearl ES, acquired new 3/2016 (39.7ah at ~20k miles)

PV1
Site Moderator
Posts: 2992
Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2012 4:22 pm
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Contact: Website

Re: About the Solar and other Energy costs in Europe

Fri Sep 11, 2015 8:02 am

Kuuuurija wrote:
PV1 wrote:Over the next 23 years (25 years from install date), my solar panels, without any incentives, are cheaper than grid power.

Lucky you! Must be some exceptionally favourable conditions at your place!
But in large scale, as an average for Europe, the solar power is 14 times costlier than coal power.

It's like that in many places in the US.

What is the total cost of installation for a 5 kW solar array where you live (panels, racking, inverters, installation)? Per the pricing of my array installer, a 5 kW array could be made up of eighteen 275 watt solar panels for a total cost of $15,000. That is for a turn-key system before any incentives. Install it yourself and save a couple thousand dollars. A system of this size will produce roughly 5,000 kWh per year. At 12 cents/kWh, this system would break even in 25 years, matching the cost of grid power. Increase the cost of electricity to 15 cents/kWh, now the system will break even in 20 years. Add in a 30% FTC, now the system breaks even in 14 years.
:idea: :idea: :idea: :!: :!:

Dropbox maintenance in progress. If any of my links aren't working after November 17, please PM me and let me know which one isn't working.

Thanks.

Return to “Off Topic”