Even the Tesla Model S....

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Don said:
marlon said:
Many DC drive EV conversions do use a transmission, but only because their motor can't spin up to 10,000 RPM like our AC drive motor can - That speed would throw the windings off the rotor in the DC motors

I miss shifting, but the car is somehow plenty of fun without it - Using the regenerative braking to the max makes up for the lack of shifting, at least to me

Don

It's also an easy way to mount the motor to the existing drive shafts by making an adapter plate and then connecting the motor shaft to the hub on the transmission. AC conversions are using the transmission as well, but I think they just keep the transmission in the same gear all the time.

+1 on the Regen Fun. :D
 
I saw this today, it seems even the Tesla has range variables. The reviewer used , I think, to much heating and yet expected a no heating range.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/10/automobiles/stalled-on-the-ev-highway.html

I think all cars need to have a wee sticker that shows on the dash, the range from full with differing configureations, as well as the gauge that changes when you drive.

I think though that doing what Volvo did, that is adding a liquid fuel heater is proberbly a good idea for very cold climates, and the use of better insulation, I think some car makers use double glazing and that would help as would insulating the floor and roof, and sides of the car.

To those that really what to be all electric, for the imiev we are simply adding a on board extra set of batteries, and running that through an inverter, to run a 2. 4 Kw electric heater. If it can keep a house room warm no problem, it should cope with a car easily, perhaps even on 1. 5 Kw setting.

Two lithium batteries of 5kw each would easily have enough to run the heater to 50 % SOC for 2 hours or to flat, for 4 hours or so.

Or this extra capacity could be used to recharge anywhere and use the on board heater. This would give the on board heater about two hours use on max. And a range of about 100 Km / 61 miles.


For those who only need say one hour of 2.4 Kw heat, and need the 100 km range, a 3 kw lithium would not be fully flat after an hour, and it could be set up to recharge along with the main battery, while at work, for the trip back.


I wish the imiev came from the factory though with 25 Kw built in, and that would take away all the problems we currently find with range at 100 km @ 100 m hour, no heater or aircon on.

25 Kw would give us about 155 km range, enough for us to do the trip out to our storage land and back without worry. We could even have the heater on, on the way back. about 45 minutes or 2. 4 kw used or about 2-3 bars on the 5.5 Kw heater on max. rough figures.and still have bars spare.
 
MLucas said:
It's also an easy way to mount the motor to the existing drive shafts by making an adapter plate and then connecting the motor shaft to the hub on the transmission. AC conversions are using the transmission as well, but I think they just keep the transmission in the same gear all the time
Yes, keeping the transmission does make some things easier, especially when doing FWD conversions . . . . plus, it also allows you to have a 'true' neutral and you can further simply things further by not having to reverse the motor to back up

The Miata conversion I was contemplating before I bought the iMiEV would have been to make an adapter to mount the DC motor directly to the tailshaft of the 5 speed trans, which would have enabled the use of the rear motor mount, the stock drive shaft and even the mechanical speedometer drive - Miatas are RWD. It would also have mounted the motor in the same location as the original transmission which would have left nearly all of the underhood engine compartment for mounting batteries

With a direct drive and the limited RPM available from the DC motor, top speed would have been limited to about 60 mph, but I was willing to live with that just to be rid of the weight and space taken up by the useless transmission

Don
 
iMiEVNZ7 said:
25 Kw would give us about 155 km range...
I would love having that much power capacity, and if battery technology continues at its current rate, maybe someday we could swap out our existing battery pack for one with that much power storage.

Adding insulation, especially double-paned glass, adds weight. Second only to aerodynamic losses, weight is an EV's biggest foe. I only know of a handful of vehicles with double-paned windows... Mercedes S-class is one. Unless we want to pay S-class prices, we'll have to do with single-paned windows. :)

I am fortunate that I live in a part of the world that doesn't have very cold winters. This year, in fact, has been like almost no winter at all. Summer is a big deal here, though. 100°F/38°C and higher summers are the norm. I'm glad to know the A/C uses less power than the heater.
 
There's quite a battle brewing between Tesla/Elon Musk and the NY Times/John Broder. Mr. Broder test drove a Tesla S with the 85 kwh battery. He drove from DC to Conn. with stops and recharging along the way. he reports that the car/battery did not give him the promised mileage, presumably because of the cold weather. At one point the car just shut down and needed to be towed. Here is his article. The article is pretty damning.

However, Elon Musk has angrily responded that Broder isn't being honest; that he took detours that he didn't report and that he interrupted charging before it was complete. Elon Musk's tweets are set forth in this article by someone at MIT who owns a Tesla S.

Then, to top it all off, the NY Times/Tesla saga has led this Washington Post critic of President Obama to write an article critical of electric cars and critical of the Obama administration for supporting the technology. This is actually where I started. I saw this article and worked backwards to the other articles. This guy clearly wants to see the technology fail.

While I'm at it, I might as well share this not-very optimistic article about the near-future of electric cars issued by the American Physical Society back in August/September 2012. The article focuses on the short-term for battery technology and has a very dim view of it.

So, Tesla and electric cars in general are under attack. Let's hope Mr. Musk is able to defend his cars and let's hope that despite the prognosticators, batter technology makes an unexpected breakthrough, as technology is sometimes known to do.
 
Thanks tonymil for posting these articles, very interesting reads. This is the backlash of spin that is appearing more and more in the press to steer potential EV consumers away from an EV purchase. Much of this is nonsense and pseudo-science like EVs today don't have the range for average family in the US today. Really? They don't mention the other reasons to drive an EV, like not supporting Petrolium companies that pollute our air and water and they don't mention how much electricty goes into converting petrolium into gasoline.
 
Grin, I showed my boss a video about the Tesla last night. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INaV40Hy66Q

He took one look and said Buy It !.

This compared to the imiev Maybe...I got from him is encouraging. I told him there are none in NZ of the Tesla yet, He said Import it then, but I told him we aren't generally allowed Left hand Drive cars here ....But if we could get a Tesla imported for not much more than the USA price it would be cool.

Imiev for now though I think.
 
Thanks Joe, good letter. I don't know if Elon Musk will be able to prove Broder set up the car to fail, but he can certainly show bad judgment.
 
Well, Tesla has finally posted the data from the NY Times/John Broder "test drive" and I have to say it's pretty damning evidence against Broder. At one point he actually tried to kill the battery by driving in circles around a parking lot when he was supposed to be charging the car. What a malicious bastard.

Here's the article from Tesla.
 
It is a very good response with the facts clearly spelled out. John Broder didn't think that a technical marvel like the S would track his every move to his own detriment. This clearly shows that he is a fraud and simply working against progress towards a greener future.

I listened to a CBC (Canadian Broadcast) radio show last night about Tim Horton's putting in a charge station in Oakville. A pundit was interviewed who clearly had no idea how EVs work and what purpose a charging station would serve. Obviously, he had not heard about 'opportunity charging', yet he spent the 30 seconds of the interview explaining how EVs are too expensive, don't recoupe the cost of gasoline for the purchase price and don't have the range. Same crap we have heard over and over again.

This is the backlash that I new was forthcoming and is growing and growing.
 
Another point that needs to be made: cold reduces the range of internal combustion cars, too. Quite a bit on shorter trips, in fact. I know my mileage drops by about 20% in the winter vs the summer. Some of that decrease is due to increased aero drag (colder air is denser) and this obviously affects any car, but a lot of it is due to slower warm up time. And if I plug in a block heater, my warm up time would be shortened by enough to save me 5-8% on my mileage.

At 6F (which it apparently was on the night Mr. Broder stayed in the hotel) and say a 4 year old battery or if he left the dome light on or if there was a little water in the tank - what guarantee would Mr. Broder have that the engine would even start; let alone be able to go as far as it would have on the ~1/4 tank of gas?

Neil
 
http://publiceditor.blogs.nytimes.c...and-judgment-but-not-integrity-in-tesla-test/

Well, they seem to have taken the squishy route... If Mr. Broder was "imprecise" then he should admit that he made several mistakes, and make a written retraction and apology.

If he headlined his article and included an embarrassing picture of the Model S on a flatbed - that was actually caused by him and not any deficiencies in the car, then his article is worse than "imprecise", in my opinion.

Reporters should report on facts. How does Ms. Sullivan justify that it matters that Mr. Broder was "unaware that his every move was being monitored"? Is she saying that he would have tried to be more precise if he had only known that Tesla had the hard numbers? What does that say about Mr. Broder's "journalism" let alone his integrity?

Ms. Sullivan than goes on to make an unsubstantiated accusation of Mr. Musk that somehow the numbers are "quite misleading"? How so, Ms. Sullivan?
 
NeilBlanchard said:
Ms. Sullivan than goes on to make an unsubstantiated accusation of Mr. Musk that somehow the numbers are "quite misleading"? How so, Ms. Sullivan?

I agree Neil, her response says a lot of nothing. I still believe Broder had it in for the Model S and I believe the NY Times was ok with that. The alternative to this being an intentional trashing is that it was utter incompetence by both Broder and the Times.

I think between Elon Musks response and all the data he posted; the sucessful recreation of the trip by CNN; the successful recreation of the trip by a number of Tesla owners; and this tepid criticism of Broder by the NY Times, Tesla has come out of this pretty well. And hopefully more people are taking electric cars seriously than there were before.

Here are a couple of links about the Tesla owners' road trip:

https://twitter.com/TeslaRoadTrip/

http://green.autoblog.com/2013/02/18/tesla-model-s-road-trip-drivers-have-no-problem-video/

Tony
 
I call shenanigans on the bogus Tesla cold weather test drive failure.

I regularly drive my Miev to Biggers Chevrolet in Elgin in 20 degree weather for service.

On the way I recharge at McHenry College near Woodstock, IL.

No problem whatsoever.

The guy said this in the article. "“It takes more planning than a typical gasoline car, no way around it.

Well duh....if he wasn't familiar with driving an electric car he shouldn't have done it.

Planning is everything. ....and I am no fan of Tesla.
 
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